Triads, Breakups, and Kitchen Table Poly

Josh 0:00
All right, folks. So today we are going to answer questions that folks have sent in about non monogamy about their relationships. So we are going to be touching on mono poly relationships, long distance relationships, jealousy, what to do when your group is falling apart, and more. So stay tuned.

Cassie 0:37
Here at Touch of Flavor we teach non monogamous folks how to overcome their obstacles and build thriving relationships.

Josh 0:43
This podcast is about answering one question, how do you create loving, passionate, secure relationships outside the box? Even if nothing has ever worked before? If you want to know the answer, you are in the right place.

Cassie 0:56
All of this information is 100% free. So please subscribe to and review our podcast.

Josh 1:06
Alright, everybody. So today we're going to do something that we haven't done, uh, not ever, but it's been a while. Yeah. And we are going to do a question and answer episode. So a lot of you probably know we have a very large Facebook group, Facebook community. What- how many people ae we up to now?

Cassie 1:24
About 17,000. Almost 18,000. Well, we're past 17,000 Getting close to 18,000 at this point.

Josh 1:29
Yeah. And it is just it's an absolutely awesome group of people who are there, they're looking to build thriving non monogamous relationships. And just first off if you're not in the group, you should absolutely join it. Super supportive. We answer questions we post really great information in there like really great resources to help you navigate your non monogamous relationships. What else would you say is different? Cassie, you spend more time on the Facebook's. But what kind of sets it apart from other non monogamous Facebook groups.

Cassie 1:56
So there's a couple of things. First off, we are really focused on building healthy relationships, which means we don't do the bullshit. We don't do the bickering we don't do the fighting. We don't do the the silliness that a lot of other Facebook groups do like we get to what needs to happen to get your relationship on track, and how can you get best supported. So we remove a lot of that drama. We aren't partial to any particular style of non monogamy aside for it being consensual, right? So we are welcome to all different dynamics and age groups and things like that. So it's a very, very diverse group of people. And I would say the last thing is, is that just the conversations are really awesome. Because we, again, are really focused on that aspect of making your relationships thrive. So you don't see a lot of like comments where people are like, Oh, just break up or ditch that person. It's really like, well, what is it that you want? And what is the best steps to get you there?

Josh 2:59
Well and the other piece, I'll say too, is just this is what we do professionally, what we know how to do. So we also will tend to point out when people are giving answers that are going to damage people's relationships. So we have that that aspect of I don't know, what would you say

Cassie 3:15
I'm going to put it in the space, I think that it is such a place of growth, because we are willing to tell you you're wrong and point it out and not let it be treated as equal information. Like we will point out if this is going to hurt your relationship, we're going to tell you.

Josh 3:34
Yeah, so definitely, number one, so join our group if you haven't. Any platform that you're on, we'll drop a link in the description. So definitely do that. But what we did, we had a whole bunch of people coming in, and we just went through like the 3 or 400 people who joined this last week and asked him Hey, like, what are some questions you have about non monogamy? And we got a whole bunch of questions back. So we're gonna go ahead, dive into them. Some of them have names, some of them don't. Some people want and stuff anonymous, but we're going to answer them and let everybody kind of get the benefit of the answers.

So let's start with Tina. I need help. I have been in an existing poly relationship with a man for five years. Then I met my girlfriend. And for two and a half years she lived in another state and my other relationship was out of sight, out of mind. And the other piece of this that's important that comes later is that the girlfriend is monogamous. So had a relationship for five years and met a girlfriend. Girlfriend lived in another state. So her relationship with this this guy was out of sight out of mind. Now girlfriend has moved there moved, in its in her face. It's a struggle. The girlfriend is mono. I need help. So really at the end of the day, poly/mono relationship right. Okay, so you want to start with answers do you want me to?

Cassie 4:47
You can go ahead and start with this one.

Josh 4:50
So the first piece of this is that you know this is important to realize Tina is so... while you haven't been in a monogamous relationship for your girlfriend, it basically was. And it also isn't entirely clear to me, you know, it says out of sight out of mind, it's also not entirely clear to me how much she knew, didn't know that kind of stuff before now. Whatever, the situation is, right now she's here, it's in her face. And in some ways, you're kind of starting fresh. And I don't mean you're starting fresh, like whatever conversations you had, if you made it clear before, like, obviously, that's all in the space, like, that's fine. But at the same time, you're in the same spot where anybody would be if they're approaching this, this challenge, where one person is monogamous in a relationship and the other person's polyamorous, right, which is, you have really three options from here.

One is that you can continue to just kind of have it out of sight out of mind and not discuss it. And, you know, that always leads to the buildup of hard emotions, given that your girlfriend is monogamous, and you're already dating, it would probably be on her part where she's, you know, jealous and resentful. And you're not talking about it, that's building, building, building, building, and eventually stuff blows up. Right? I always tell people, that's really the only wrong option is to bury it, because that always is messy at the end. And it's always creating a lot of pain later for avoiding discomfort now, so that's the one you don't want to do. The other two options that you have are to breakup, which I'm going to assume is not your first option, or you wouldn't be submitting this question. Or you can, knowing the reality that you have another partner, right, that she's monogamous, you can try and find a way to make that work.

Cassie 6:31
Yeah. And the thing is, is that, obviously, right now is going to be a bit scary. Because even though you had this other relationship, and it has been there, as Josh mentioned, like it hasn't been in your face, or in her face, rather. So now, this is a thing that now she's going to have to deal with with one of those options. And it's easy for us to kind of like deal with things in terms of like not paying attention to them when they're not there. It's more hypothetical, but now it's real. And it's really going to have to be one of those choices of Okay, so what needs to happen to make this an awesome relationship with us, with knowing that I am polyamorous and you're monogamous.

Josh 7:17
So okay, so you're in that boat where you're like, Alright, I want to try and make it work. Right, which I think if you weren't, you probably wouldn't have submitted this question. What are the things to do? Well, number one, like I said, you have to commit to not burrying it and to actually dealing with it, right. That process of like burying your head in the sand just just blows up. Okay, so that's the first piece. Second thing is to understand that it is possible for these kinds of relationships to work. And this is really important, because the general story around this in the non monogamous space, is that these kinds of relationships where one person's monogamous, and the other is polyamorous do not work. And that is just absolute horseshit. So when we look at kind of the breadth of our clients, and the kinds of people who come to us, about half of them have been non monogamous for a long time, about half of them, at least one person in the relationship is new to nonmonogamy, right. And then overall, about a third. So it's a big chunk of that half, right, about a third of our clients are in what you could term poly mono relationships, or let's say, relationships where one person is much more polyamorous and the other person is not as okay with it. Right. And that can look like all kinds of different things, but where there's this huge gap in you know, in what people want, as far as non monogamy how okay they are with the non monogamy, and we see those work all the time, right. So knowing that it is possible, and then from there is going to be either one or both of you have to really commit to doing the work to making this relationship work. Because when I say it is possible, right, and we see a lot of clients succeed in that those aren't people who like coast through and expect that to be easy. And and it just goes like, these are people who put in a lot of work a lot of effort to bridge that gap. So you have to decide that one or both of you is willing, like this relationship has enough there, right is worth doing the hard work that it's going to take to bridge that gap.

Cassie 9:20
Yeah, and I tell folks, you know, like poly mono can be one of the most difficult dynamics to, to handle because you have someone who now is in a position where you know, it can feel like for them that they are at a very big loss. So it's about making sure that you really are or at least, you know, one of you is really really fighting for that relationship to be a healthy one.

Josh 9:49
And then from that place, it's it's finding the path forward to navigating what that actually looks like. And this is not easy, right? And this is why I said you know, this involves things like... This involves things like, you know, number one, making sure that your partner is getting what they want and need, right helping your partner, whether they're doing the work or you're helping them through it, like your partner getting to a spot where they can deal with their feelings, right? This is gonna involve you being super honest about what you want and what you need and not not backing down and refusing to kind of hide that and bury your head in the sand and, and you being open and honest. And then it's going to involve really finding a way, a path forward where you, you figure out how can we both have each other? How can we both have each other and it get to a spot where we're both able to be happy and healthy and whole, and this relationship, right, and that's easier said than done. But it can happen, right, but I think the first piece that I would say to you is just really deciding number one, that you're not going to bury your head in the sand on this. And number two, that you are going to like I said like one or both of us are willing to do the hard work, you know, put in the time put in the effort, get the help, like whatever it is that it takes to navigate this forward. Anything else you want to add there?

Cassie 11:16
Um, just that, you know, I just like most non monogamous relationship is takes multiple skills, right? It's that balance, and particularly you as the as the partner who is non monogamous, right? You really are going to have to hone in on those skills, of being able to communicate balancing your time, making sure needs are being handled, even more so because your partner is the monogamous one who isn't necessarily exactly on the same exact journey as you.

Josh 11:50
Okay, so let's wrap that one up.

Teresa, what is the word for your style of group poly? There's a huge difference between close triad as in not open to or playing with other couples and having a focus on your main nesting relationships, but you're not against others happening. Okay, so first off, just to clarify for people I think Teresa's asking about our relationship.

Cassie 12:12
Yes, us personally.

Josh 12:13
And for anybody who hasn't been following the show long enough to know what that looks like. We live in a group dynamic. It's us, our partner, Amanda, we have two kids in the house. And then we also have other partners. Right now that's more on the casual end of things. Oh, that's more like a convenience COVID time constraints, than a agreement?

Cassie 12:35
Yeah.

Josh 12:35
Not open to it, constraint. Right. So let me kick this over to you Cassie because you're much more down with like the lingo.

Cassie 12:45
Down with the lingo.

Josh 12:45
Down with the lingo that I am, like, is there actually a specific word for that? I'm not sure.

Cassie 12:49
So I mean, I think technically, technically, as technical as terms are. First off, folks, like everybody uses terms different differently. Don't get too hung up on that. But like, technically, I think what we would be considered as like, an open triad. I think that would be like, what our, like, most dynamic fit would be right. And I say that because like we are nesting partners, we all live together. That's what nesting is. We're a triad, we're all together.

Josh 13:24
I like throuple better than triad.

Cassie 13:25
Throuple... A lot of people hate that because it's so cutesy I think it's adorable. Um, so for me, I've actually been using my own thing when I'm talking to clients, like our clients, and in kind of a joking way. I say, This is my home base. This is my home base relationship. Like some people have like the anchor relationship. I like home base. It's like when you're playing tag, and like, you need to get back to like, where you're safe. Like, this is my safe space. This is like my amazing, awesome relationship where I get to go back to the people I love. And like everything I need is there. So I don't know, for me, it's home base, but I guess we would fall into like nesting, anchor triad, open, I don't know.

Josh 14:11
Here's the other thing I just want to throw in here though. I do want to just use this. So it's a cool question. And we're happy to answer but I do just want to use it as a teachable moment. You know, one thing that we, when we're working with folks talking to folks that we see is we love labels so much in non monogamy right? And and there's almost like two camps of people. There's like, relationship anarchists who don't like any label except relationship anarchy, which is a label, right? And then there's like, another camp of people who like really like to slap labels on everything, and and the relationships, and listen, like it's a normal human thing to want to find labels. It's a convenience thing. You know, it's a place of just being, you know, like even just defining who you are and what you are. It's a shorthand, and it's really convenient. So, you know, I'm not downplaying why we use them. But at the same time, when you're having any serious conversation, right beyond just like in passing, and especially when you're talking to your partners, or people are interested in being potential partners or stuff like that, it's really important. You can't rely on labels. Like you have to really actually have discussions about what we want this relationship to look like. Right? Like, what are the expectations? What do we want? What are we giving? What are we looking to get? Where are we willing to let this grow? What are the interactions we want to have with each other? How do we want to interact with our partner's partners, you have to actually have all these discussions, rather than just relying on labels?

Cassie 15:50
Yeah. And we tell folks this every day, and that's, it's super important to have those things clear. And I think beyond that, just find what works best for the lesser conversations, right? Like if someone's like, Oh, who is this partner? And what are these you? If it sits right with you, then then use that right? Like if nesting partner fits better use that if if

Josh 16:14
We're not recording. No, oh, yeah, we are sorry.

Cassie 16:17
We are.

Josh 16:19
The recording icon disappeared for a minute. And I was like, Holy crap, do we just go through 16 minutes of unrecorded show?

Cassie 16:25
No. But anyway, going back to that the question, the reason why you're asking this is because you're interested in in this and that was kind of a little bit of a side conversation with the person's question. And the answer is fine. The title that that, that that works for your relationship, and use that.

Josh 16:45
Alright, so our next question, and we got two that are very similar. So we're just gonna answer them together. So Catarina, and by the way anybody that's going through here, if we botch your names, I apologize. I can only go off how they're spelled. Catarina, how do I get past the feeling that my husband will leave me if I date, when it's already been discussed that it's okay? You know, these, these are actually kind of different now that I'm looking at them. Let's answer these one by one. Because this first one, even though they're very similar, and they're only slightly different, this first one is a question about worry about my husband. And then the second is a question of worrying about losing my partner. And it's actually a little... like, so one's like my partner's jealous. And one is I'm jealous. And those are actually a little different. So you want to start Catarina's question?

Cassie 17:34
Sure. So how do I get past the feeling that my husband will leave me if I date, when it's already been discussed? So here's the thing, there's going to be big emotions that come up when you open a relationship, and it comes down to knowing that the foundation of your relationship is strong. It's knowing that these feelings and emotions that come up, are just that. They're the emotions they're, us kind of growing past what we've done for a very long time. But if you're really concerned about, you know, if your husband, that feeling your husband's going to leave is true. It's looking at your relationship and seeing what is the stability there? What is the the makings of our relationship? Is our relationship actually grounded to where we can handle some of those emotions and feelings and fears that are coming up? Because as you said, he's okay with it. He's already agreed. But you're worried that later on, there's going to be things that come up.

Josh 18:46
So kind of two things here. So first off, and I do just want to draw an important distinction. Because you said, you know, he said he's okay with it. But the question isn't actually that, the question says, it's been discussed, and it's okay. Which doesn't actually mean the partner is okay with it.

Cassie 18:59
I mean, he, he agreed to it is what I meant.

Josh 19:03
Right. But I just wanted to draw that that's an important distinction for this question. And there's, Okay, so a couple things here. So number one, I have a really firm belief. And this is something that we work with our clients on all the time, I've really firm belief that my partners are all adults. And what that means is that if my partners agree to something and they say something's okay, it's my job to treat them like an adult and not to second guess and try and draw agreements based on what I'm worried they might actually possibly be feeling and thinking instead of what they've actually told me is okay. And this is something that we coach our clients on all the time, because, you know, doing this any other way, it's impossible to have really solid relationships and solid agreements that work for everybody if you're in a spot where you're constantly second guessing everything that your partner's say to you. But, and this is a really important distinction. While that is critically important to learn in your relationships, that does assume a certain stable base and foundation to begin with, you know, I said we work on this with our clients. But we do this after we've done some work on the stability of the relationship as a whole, on their communication, on their connection to the point where we know they can actually have these conversations and actually get a straight answer, right, and that they're stable enough to survive the bumps that come from if they're a partner, is maybe not 100% honest in that conversation. Especially since we're not always working with both partners, right? So we might be helping somebody and then we don't have their partner here to work on their partner being straight up in a conversation like that.

So this is why this is really important, right? Is because while the ideal thing would be to go, okay, my partner said, Yes, let's do it. You really need to question for yourself. I have a feeling my partner will leave me and I'd ask you why. Why do you feel that way? What is the reason? And I'm willing to bet that you know the answer to that question? And if you look at that, and you're like, Yeah, I you know, I think I just feel that way, just because this is what we've always done, that's fine. But if you're like, I have that feeling because of the way my partner's acted about this so far. I have the feeling because I know we don't know how to do this, and I'm worried we're going to hit a landmine. I have that feeling because my partner's already seemed jealous. I have that feeling because our relationships really already unstable, and throwing something else on here could mess things up. That's not a feeling that's a reason. Right? It's this isn't a feeling that your husband will leave you that that at that point becomes a reason to believe that your partner might leave you. And maybe a reason with some good evidence behind. So and this does kind of wrap it in the next question. But for you, Catarina, what's going to be critical you know, and we can we can talk about getting past feelings here in Frank's question, but I always want all of you not just to work on getting past the feelings of something without actually looking at the situation. And making sure there isn't anything else that needs to be addressed. That's the differnce between feeling secure and being secure. So the first thing that I would tell you Catarina is to look at the feeling and to go, Is it really just a feeling? Or if there's something else here, if there's something else here, you need to address that first. If you look at that, and it really truly is just a feeling, then the short answer is the way you're going to get past it is by doing it and having it go okay. But you're really need to look at that other question first. Anything you wanna throw into that you want me to wrap Frank's question in?

Cassie 22:45
I think we can wrap Frank's question.

Josh 22:46
So Frank's question is almost like the opposite side of this question. I'm wondering, will there always be that feeling of possibly losing your spouse because of her relationship with the other person?

Cassie 22:59
And this goes back to sort of flipping this on its head, which is, you know, looking at your relationship, right? Is, is there a reason why your partner may not want to put time into your relationship or stay in this relationship if she's getting something met elsewhere? Are there needs? Are there things in your relationship that aren't working? That was already pushing your partner away before having another partner?

Josh 23:30
Yeah, anytime there's jealousy and insecurity in a relationship, there's two pieces, right? There's the feelings, there's just the feelings of like, oh, there's no reason for this. And I just have these emotions, because I'm human. And I need to deal with them. Rather than venting them into the relationship in an unhealthy way where I'm damaging this, I'm creating distance, I'm pushing my partner away, or even into somebody else's arms. Which is a very common worry in your shoes, by the way, Frank is, and I don't know if that's it for you. But so often, when I hear it's not just, I'm worried, I'm gonna lose my spouse, it's, I'm wondering if I'm feeling jealous. I'm already worried about maybe losing my spouse. And now because I'm jealous, I'm lashing out, I'm creating distance, I'm pushing my partner away, and I'm pushing them closer and closer to this other person. Right? So there's the feelings that you have to deal with. But the other piece of this again, is you always need to examine that that feeling of jealousy or insecurity first and ask yourself, why? Because really, what we wind up with is there's like, this iceberg where the feelings are the bit above the surface. And then there's all these reasons below, so why are you worried about losing your spouse? Again, is because you don't know how to do this? Is it because you've tried this before and it's gone really poorly, is it because you are watching this person and they're getting a whole bunch of things that you want or need to but aren't getting it? It's because your partner seems like they're not interested in you and they don't want to do stuff with you and they don't want to be intimate with you, but they're jumping at the chance to do with this other person.

If that's the case, you have to deal with those first. And you know, you can get through the feelings like those feelings don't have to be there. But those feelings will always be there. Until you first address the reasons why those feelings are there. It's only once those feelings are, or the reasons are handled, the stuff below the surface is handled, that you can really then sit back and just learn to cope with your feelings. You know, I tell people this all the time, but just as a really easy example, if Cassie and I are in relationship, and I've been asking for dates and time for years, and her answer is always no, I'm too busy. I don't like doing that, you know, I don't I don't, I don't like going out to restaurants. Like it's really boring, I have so much stuff to do. And then now she has a new partner. And every night it's like, Hey, man, we're going to this great restaurant, like, it's amazing. I'm so excited to go with this person, like, let's do it, you're gonna feel bad. Like, there's nothing that's gonna make you feel great about that, until you've actually dealt with the problems first and foremost that you're not getting which you want and need. So the answer is that feeling doesn't always have to be there. But you have to actually look again and see what are the reasons that you're feeling that way and to address that. And then you can deal with the feelings, we work with our clients, we get the reasons out of the way first, and then we deal with the feelings because only then only when you've removed everything else and there's nothing left but the feelings. Can you really now eliminate the feelings and get them gone. Does that make sense? What else?

Cassie 26:28
I think that's a big part of that. Right? And then from there just checking in with yourself, right? Like, is this, am I getting better or am I getting worse? Right? Am I getting to a place where these negative emotions are decreasing, or are they getting worse and worse. And if they're getting worse, it's definitely not a place to sit. Like if you can't figure out like if you're stuck and you're like, I don't know if this is me, or if this is something else or, or what the combination is. But I notice that these emotions are becoming heavier. And this fear is becoming more and more that's time to like, look for answers it's the time to look for advice or or or start trying something new. It's definitely not a place to sit.

Josh 27:19
Alright, good. So our next question is anonymous. I'll let you start with this one. We have been open of some kind for nine years, my husband and I never had a problem with each other seeing people. But now he's been with his current boyfriend for a year. And his boyfriend still refuses to be in the same room as me because it makes him uncomfortable even though according to them, I've been nothing but sweet and caring. It feels off. Our community around here pretty much assumes it means that if they want a Don't Ask Don't Tell situation are shady in some way if they're not open to kitchen table. This is a great thing about video, people can see my face as I read these questions. Alright, Cassie.

Cassie 27:55
So here's the thing, right? Like, different people operate differently in non monogamy. And if your Metamor is being respectful, and it sounds like your Metamor is being fairly respectful, they're saying that you're sweet, you're caring, you're nice. But it's just not- it doesn't feel good for them to be in the same room and share space with you. Then the real question here is what is it for you that doesn't feel right? Is it just that community aspect? Is it just that this is what you've been told is the ideal, right? If if everything else is working, which is what you're saying here, right? Like your partner's got this relationship things are fine, but you're it feels off because his boyfriend doesn't want to be in the same room with you. Right? The question really comes down to are you more focused on what you think is supposed to be the right way? Or are you you know, is that more important than like what actually works for everybody involved?

Josh 29:09
Yeah, um I just want to throw out here that, there's no way to say this is gonna come across great but, our community assumes, the community thinks, or people think... like I always want you to keep in mind that half the time people are telling you the way should be, their relationships are dumpster fires. Like I just straight up and so never take any of that with without a grain of salt. Right and you're not because you're here and you're asking questions and that's fine but I just want to put that out there because you know, I'm reading those like I said, I'm sure people who are watching this video can see my face but like it means they want on Don't Ask Don't Tell her shady in some way because they don't like, my partner's partner doesn't like being around me. This is one of those like poly myths, is that, It's this idea of like kitchen table, and we should all be able to interact. And we should all be able to do this. And you know, the truth of the matter is like some people, that's just not how they roll. And that's fine. Like some people aren't comfortable with watching their partner interact with their other partners. And that's fine.

Cassie 30:25
And that doesn't mean anything about you. And it doesn't mean anything about them either, necessarily, right?

Josh 30:30
So so two things I want to separate out here. Right? I just want to say that doesn't mean that they there isn't something shady or off. I mean, you're the one there in that feeling that, right? And if you believe there is, then you really need to look into yourself and see what that feeling is, what that intuition is, and really question that. But it also certainly doesn't mean that they are, it may just mean that they're not the kind of person who likes watching their partners interact with other people romantically. And that's cool. And then the only question becomes, knowing that, what are the agreements that need to be in place for you to be comfortable?

I'll give you a very easy example here, you're talking about your husband, I'm assuming you live together, right? I'm assuming the boyfriend of a year does not live together, I could be wrong with that. Otherwise, it's gonna be really uncomfortable. But let's just say, right? Well, it's going to, most likely and I'm generalizing here, right. But most likely, it's going to be weird for you to feel like there's rooms in your own house that you can't be in. So maybe, if that's the case, then maybe one of the things here that you can talk about with your partner is simply not having the boyfriend over when you're there. And also probably not kicking you out so the boyfriend can come over, but then finding a space to interact, where it's not going to make you uncomfortable because you now can't go in certain areas of your home. Right? You really need to, to think and have a conversation about okay, like they don't want, number one. So number one, question that intuition, see if there really is any reason to think that anything's wrong beyond just his boyfriend not wanting to be in the room with you? And if that is it, then just go to yourself. Okay, fine. So then what needs to be in place to make this work? Do we need to meet differently this time need to be adjusted? Because, you know, maybe, maybe there isn't as much time available for your husband to spend with his boyfriend, if you can ever be around? I don't know. But what are the what are the things that need to be put in place to then make that work?

Cassie 32:27
Yeah, and then that's really it. You know, the, the big thing is, is recognizing that our relationships don't all have to look the same. They don't have to be the poly idealistic looking things, right. As long as everybody's being respectful and getting their needs met in those situations.

Josh 32:50
We're getting like the sun going off the green here and getting some interesting color stuff going on in this video. Okay.

Cassie 32:54
Awesome sunset going on.

Josh 32:55
Yeah, let me just.

Cassie 32:59
One of the problems with our studio having all the windows, we have a lot of windows in here.

Josh 33:04
A lot of natural light sometimes. Alright, our next question is from Kylie. I'm someone who's trying to begin my poly journey. Because I found myself in love with more than one person. I'm in a long distance relationship.

Okay, this says ltr like long term relationship, but the question reads long distance relationships. So I'm going to...

Cassie 33:29
I'm in a long term relationship

Josh 33:32
No, but it's going to be long distance. Because it's talking about being away from the other person. So.

Cassie 33:38
I know this person.

Josh 33:39
Okay, so it's a long term? Okay. Well, then you read the question then.

Cassie 33:42
So basically, Kiley has two partners, she has a long term partner, and she has a long distance partner. And she is upset, because that that long distance relationship is, you know, she's not seeing that person. It's upsetting her, but it's negatively affecting her primary relationship that she's having

Josh 34:06
So we have an LDR and an ltr. In the same question, got it. Okay

Cassie 34:11
Yeah.

Josh 34:11
All right. That's why it's good to have background on some of these.

Cassie 34:14
Yeah. So basically, what's going on is there is the relationship that is a long distance relationship. And because of that, she's upset and sad. And those emotions are now causing some issues in her relationship that she's...

Josh 34:35
Can you imagine how much easier it must be for people who work with monogamous relationships to do question and answers.

Cassie 34:41
Right?

Josh 34:42
Look, when I'm talking to clients for the first time, I always have a diagram. Always. Okay, sorry. Go ahead.

Cassie 34:50
So yeah, so there's the long term relationship that's, you know, her primary that's being affected by the way Long distance relationship, that she's having emotions around.

Josh 35:04
Because she's having emotions because it is long distance. Okay? So what to do when you're being separated from one partner, and distance from one partner is causing problems in your other relationship? All right.

Cassie 35:21
So this is kind of like three, three things I would really narrow it down to. And the first is, you know, the recognition that like, when we take on the great responsibility of having multiple partners, right, like, it's like, spider man with great power comes responsibility is we have to manage those relationships. And there's always going to be some bleed off from our relationships into the other areas of our other relationships. And with that, it's also our job to like mitigate that and to have that effect as little as possible. So there's kind of a couple of things that need to happen in order for it not to. So first, is there anything that you can do with your relationship that's at a distance right now to close some of that distance and make you happier? Is there things and interactions that you can have with that person to actually make you feel better? Right? Like, is there things that you can do, maybe more zoom dates? Maybe it's having more conversations or having more interactions of some kind? Is there a way to close some of that distance gap? The other part is, how do I give time to the other relationship without those feelings overflowing? So how do I do that? How do I keep myself from from bleeding over into my relationship? Well, that comes down to you managing those emotions in different times, maybe that is going and when I'm really really, really feeling upset, bawling my eyes out over here. So that way, when I'm hanging out with you, I'm able to focus, right, like it's doing the things I need to do in order to be present, and interacting with my partner in a way that's fulfilling for this relationship. So it doesn't cause problems. So those would be the things that I would say are sort of the three big things that need to happen.

Josh 37:36
Okay, so I think you I don't have anything to add, I think you've crushed that. All right. So last question is from anonymous, not sure what to do. I'm in a quad with three men in the last four months, I haven't gotten along with two of my partners, I love them. But we argue all the time, I don't feel like they appreciate me. And they don't help me out the same way I help them. Right. And I'm also very jealous of how much those two give to the other partner. And I know there's been fights. But I have been blindsided, the three of them have come to me and said, they would like to give me my share of the house. And for me to move out. They would keep the kids here, they have some kids together, they actually went and talked to a lawyer and our bank to see if it was possible. And what they had to do to get me off everything, I feel betrayed. They've all said they love me and want things to work someday. But that I'm the center of all the issues and it'd be easier for me to leave until I have myself together. Okay, so, and we had we had talked about this. So let me I will start here. But basically, very short term, quad live together on a house together have kids together, has had big problems with two of the partners, which then has also impacted her relationship with the other partner. And it's now they want her to leave.

Cassie 38:55
And she has children with two of the partners.

Josh 38:58
Yeah, so Okay, so obviously a really tough situation. And I am since- and I would never do this with a name on this. But since this is an anonymous question, I feel the call to use this as a teaching moment. Right? Because even though this is anonymous, in terms of on here, the q&a, they did talk to you so we do know who it is. And this is something that we see happens a lot and like I said I feel the need to use this for teaching moment. How many conversations have you had with this person over the last three years?

Cassie 39:34
Oh, six or seven conversations at least.

Josh 39:39
Okay.

Cassie 39:40
Yeah.

Josh 39:40
And this is a thing where things are are rough but they're not so bad things are getting worse for they're not so bad things are getting even worse, then, they're not so bad. And now, now, my partner's want me gone. They want to buy me out of the house and they want to keep the kids right. And I'm only saying this because folks listen and This is really critical, so often, and this is such a normal thing that we see. Because for so many of us, we have so much other stuff going on in life and our relationships get put on the backburner and put on the backburner, and it's not so bad. And we'll address it later. And oh, we've just got to handle this, we just got to buy the house, we've just got to whatever, we've got stuff with the kids, we just got to do these things. We're just going to deal with this later. And then tomorrow never comes. And now it's weeks, months, years down the road. And we're at a point where we're losing what we've got. And we're losing our families.

Cassie 40:38
And that's really her story, right? Like, because we've talked several times over the last year, and that's what it was, it was we're buying the house now. I'm having the first baby now I'm having the second baby. Now this now that and this started with jealousy, and issues within the relationship early on.

Josh 40:56
And this is the other piece, folks, and this is this is what's so critical about this right is is you need to understand that so often, there isn't like an obvious point where it's it's been too much. You know, people don't know they don't see this coming. I can't tell you how many times I've heard the story of like, well, I knew things were bad. But you know, I thought we were okay, I know things are bad but I thought we were okay. And all the sudden, there's a straw that broke the camel's back. And suddenly, somebody can't do it anymore. And now this is the place that we're at. So I just wanted to start there, folks. And like I said, since it was anonymous to use it as a teaching moment, and just to say, to prevent anybody else from winding up in the same situation, before we answer this question, which is if you are recognizing problems, jealousy, hurt, arguments, this kind of stuff going on in your relationship, like do not put stuff off for later, like, do the work, put in the effort, get the help do what you need to do turn things around now. I'd wanted to do that. Do you want to start on with what to actually do from here?

Cassie 42:02
Yeah. So how do you want to approach this as far as like-

Josh 42:07
So what would you say to so- So as a general thing, I guess, somebody whose partners are at the point of wanting to separate with them? Where would you go from there?

Cassie 42:16
So obviously, this is kind of taken a pretty serious step. This is not just like, hypothetical, we're getting to the point like they're they're actually going and talking to people and seeing what those steps are. But they haven't taken those steps yet. So the first thing I would do is I would I would ask to sit down and ask them like, what it is that they are needing a change around. Right? Like, what is it? And don't get defensive, don't get upset, like actually be curious as to because and I'm not saying that your partners don't have problems, right? Our relationships are always a co creation. But if they're saying, hey, you know, things would be easier, because you're bringing things, what are those things? Find out what those things actually are. If you are really like blindsided, if you're not really sure what it is. And from there, figure out a plan to tackle those things. Because the big step there is you can't make the can't make promises and you're not going to like mend things, if you don't have a plan to fix what is causing your partners to want to push back and push away.

Josh 43:29
So here's what's bad, and here's what's good about this situation. Your partners are obviously serious. They've talked to a bank, they talked to a lawyer like they're serious, right? The good news is that they have said they would like things to work out someday. The danger in this is going into a separation. First of all, it's hard to say without like a more formal conversation if a separation is the ideal right now. Either way, though, whatever the answer to that is going into a separation without an actual solid path forward to fixing things is that just it's the way to guarantee that you do lose any final chance to repair this right? Separations where things aren't improving, and there isn't a plan for things to improve. Now we're living apart. Now you know what, it's kind of pretty calm without you here. This is kind of nice, we feel a lot more relaxed. And pretty quickly. It's easy to get used to the idea of you being gone. And now you - there that that bit of we'd like things to work out someday very quickly becomes maybe not so much. And I'm just going to be super honest and blunt because this is not a situation to like, piddle around and tell you nice things right when when what you need to do is hear how to fix it.

So you need to you need to come up with a plan and what I would say to you, you know what Cassie said is absolutely right. So a couple things. Number one, you need to find out. They want things to work, what would that look like for them what would need to change in you and what you're bringing in how you're behaving for this to work. That's number one. Number two, you would need to decide and be committed to fix that in yourself. Like I can tell you and again we kind of talked about this earlier. But good, bad or indifferent, if all three are coming to you with problems that you need to change in you, I'm not saying you are the only problem. But I am saying that the way to fix this is going to be, if nothing else, that they're going to need to see some change and progress in you first, before they're probably willing to put a lot of effort in, right.

And then the third piece is going to be you need to get help. Like, you've been struggling with these things for three years. If you could have fixed this and navigated this on your own, you would have already, clearly you can't, and now you're at the bleeding edge of losing it all, and you can continue to do what you've always done. Or you can actually get the help that you need to fix this. That's it. And I like I'm saying this with love, and I haven't talked to you personally, I'm all saying this for anybody else that's here in this place. Like this isn't just for you. That's the way with all these questions. But if you've been trying to fix it for years, it hasn't been working, you know, the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing over and expecting a different result. If you could have dealt with this on your own, you would have done it by now, if you had the tools, if you had the capability, you would have already solved that you wouldn't be at this point of them talking to lawyers of talking to banks, right. So what's great is you have one shot, and I'd say probably one shot remaining here to fix this. They they told you that you know, they want to separate but they've also told you they would like things to work someday. But the only way that you're going to take advantage of that is to start doing things drastically different. And that's going to involve putting the relationship first, that's going to involve absolutely committing to changing to doing what it takes to heal this. And it's going to involve getting help. And that's it. That's what you need to do. Have the conversation with your partners. Make the commitment in yourself that you're going to make the changes because that's what's going to have to happen in the situation and get the help you need to make that happen. What else Cassie?

Cassie 47:00
Oh, I only had one other thing to kind of like chime in with this is one of the things we see when we talk to those in relationships, whether it's a group, whether it's it's a couple, at the point where partners start actually detaching and looking at these things, you have to have a plan for moving forward, you can't just be saying, I'm going to fix these things.

Josh 47:24
They've been hearing you say that for years.

Cassie 47:25
They've been hearing it far too long. If they're at the point where they're talking to lawyers they're talking to, she said, the bank right, like at the point where you're going through that process of actively trying to figure out how to remove someone from your life, you're past the point of like, words meaning nothing, right? So at this point, when we see people separate, like Josh was talking about how a separation doesn't have to be the end of a relationship, if there's a plan for how to mend that. But if you have no plan, that's at the point where a lot of people give up. Because they've already detached that much.

Josh 48:05
And here's the last thing that I'll throw in here. And again, Cassie has had the conversation with you. I haven't so I don't know what's been there. But I do talk to a lot of people in these situations. And one thing, fallacy that I hear people fall into, is they go oh, well, you know, getting help like that would require resources that would require investment, you know, like, there's a lot going on, and I might have to be moving out of my house. Like i this, i that, right? And I gotta say to anybody who's out there in that situation, like, if that is the conversation that you're having, you're having the wrong conversation, for two reasons, right?

Number one, because being in this kind of situation is exactly why you need to fix things. Because as you go, right? You know, as you're in situations where you're getting divorced, or you're, you know, going through $30,000 in legal fees for lawyers, you're splitting up houses, you're dealing with child support, you're dealing with alimony, you're separating out you're getting to separate places, and now splitting up the bills and the utilities and all that this gets very expensive, very quickly. So if all you want to look at is money. fixing these problems pays for itself, but it really isn't about that. That's why I'm saying it's the wrong conversation. Like when you're talking about losing people that you love. When you're talking about losing your home when you're talking about losing your kids. That is the wrong conversation to be having. So you know anybody here anybody in that situation. This is why I said this before, like it, whether it's you anonymous, whether it's anybody in this situation, there has to be a defiant commitment to stop doing what you're doing and to make a change and to heal the relationship and to save your family or it won't happen. Okay. We reached out to you already. So if you want to help reach out but anybody else if you are in a situation where you want help, whether it's that and that obviously is maybe the most Breaking Point, tipping point, serious conversation in here, but honestly like even even and these other things like I could have, I could have thrown this in any of these you know, you're struggling with jealousy, like you're in a mono poly relationship, you don't know how to get your partner to deal with it.

Yeah, a lot of the conversations that we have with folks that are at the anonymous persons, you know, point started off with a conversation that was like, I don't know if I can deal with these feelings, or what do I do if my partner you know, falls in love with someone, a lot of this stuff starts there. And very quickly turns into much more serious conversations. Scarier conversations.

Yeah. So if you need help helping people heal this, save things, save their families, build thriving relationships, you know, and that's a lot of people we talk to are right at the brink, a lot of people are earlier on in their journey. And things haven't gotten that bad yet, like whatever. But that's exactly what we do. If you're like in a spot where you are committed to navigating things in a healthy way, we're happy to help go ahead and book a call, we can chat and figure out where you're at what's going on, like what would need to happen to fix things to make sure things are safe and secure with your you and your partners and your family.

You can just go to atouchofflavor.com/talk , it'll take you to our calendar, grab up a time, like I said, we can hop on chat, it'll be the best 45, hour, 45 minutes, hour, I err more on the hour side, that you've ever spent talking about what's going on and your family and it's free. So like I said, hop on, it'll take you to our calendar, do that grab a time. It'll take you an application, like fill out, get some info that we need to prep for your call. And we'll dive in and figure out like, what is going on what needs to happen to heal things. Okay.

But these were great questions, folks. And what I love about doing these q&a's, is that I mean, you know, you're pinged 300 people out of an 18,000 person group you got, you know, these responses back plus a few more. Right, but I mean, how many people out of the 300 out of that 18,000 are out of you know, all the 100s, 1000s of people who listen this, like how many people do those questions apply to, like how many people are in the exact same place?

Cassie 52:08
Oh, so many. I'm sure there is plenty of people who are in the same exact place as as many of the questions that we had being like, Oh, I am struggling with these feelings, or I am concerned about my partner.

Josh 52:20
And that's why we do like doing these because it isn't it isn't about, you know, Tino or Teresa, Caterina, or Kylie, you know, the last the anonymous person that we answered it, the other anonymous person, like it isn't about that. These are these are human challenges, right? These are things that people run into. And so being able to use these, you know, answer the questions, obviously help folks out, but the teaching moments for everybody who's listening to this, like that's a lot of fun. So we should do a few more of these.

Cassie 52:43
Yeah.

Josh 52:44
It's been a while. Yeah, definitely pick these back up. But like I said, Folks, you need help atouchofflavor.com/talk. Happy to help. And other than that, we are going away for training here next week, although we will have a show coming out. And we will see you all here again, very soon.

Cassie 53:02
Yeah.

Josh 53:03
Awesome. All right, have a good one.

Thanks for tuning into today's show. We release new episodes every week. So make sure to subscribe.

Cassie 53:17
If you're ready to transform your relationship and you'd like to see if you're a fit to work with us. Here's what I want you to do. Next, head over to atouchofflavor.com/talk and book an appointment to speak with our team. We'll get on the phone with you for about an hour. And we'll get you crystal clear on three things. What's really not working in your relationships, what your dream relationships would look like and a step by step plan to close the gap and save your family even if nothing has worked before.

Josh 53:44
We talk with hundreds of non monogamous folks like you every year. And here's the truth, building loving, thriving relationships that doesn't happen on its own. You need expert guidance to make that happen. And unfortunately, when you were building relationships outside the box, that's impossible to find and we get it. But that's exactly what we do. We've helped clients all over the world, save their families, get the passion back and become best friends again.

Cassie 54:08
So, if you want to see if we can help you do the same head over to atouchofflavor.com/talk. I'm Cassie.

Josh 54:16
And I'm Josh. Let's talk soon