how our polyamorous clients build thriving relationships

How To Choose A Polyamorous Coach or Therapist

“What are your qualifications”? 

We get this question all the time. And it’s a good question. 

When you’re polyamorous, it’s incredibly hard to find a good coach or counselor. And when your marriage and family are on the line, you can’t settle for anything less than the best.

But how do you figure out WHO is the best?

In order to be truly amazing, an expert needs to have paid the price in three different areas. Let’s break them down.


Watch the video to learn more. Click the play button….
Don’t have time to watch the video? Keep scrolling down the page.


Listen to the podcast version on the go…
Need to read instead? We got you covered. keep scrolling down the page.

or subscribe on:


Josh F 0:01
Hey there, everybody. So we've had a couple people lately who have asked us "what are your qualifications to help people--non monogamous folks-- heal their relationships?" So we're going to talk about that today. And really, at the end of the day, how you should be looking at getting help in your relationships, because that's obviously a really important topic. So stay tuned.

Cassie 0:18
Here at Touch of flavor, we teach non-monogamous folks how to overcome their obstacles and build thriving relationships.

Josh F 0:21
This podcast is about answering one question-- how do you create loving, passionate, secure relationships outside the box? Even if nothing has ever worked before? If you want to know the answer, you're in the right place.

Cassie 0:25
All of this information is 100% free. So please subscribe to and review our podcast.

Josh F 1:16
Okay, everybody, so we've gotten a couple of questions lately, like, "What are your qualifications to help people change their relationship?" And I know this is a really important question, because I look back at us and the low points in our relationship when we were trying to heal things. And we were really struggling and talking about divorce and things weren't working and looking for help, right? And remembering how hard it was to know who to go to and going to some people who meant really well, and even maybe had the right qualifications on paper, but who were like basically useless.

Cassie 2:06
Yeah. And I mean, I look back at when, there was a period of time where I was in a car accident, and I almost died in the car accident. You ended up going through a period of time, where you were really worried about me dying. And we were talking-- we went out looking to talk to somebody about this-- and he was kind of focused on the non monogamy and was kind of confused, but in a curious way. But we ended up spending two of our sessions, explaining the non monogamy and stuff like that, and not really getting you help with the worry and upset that you were having around losing me, right. And I'm not saying that's all of the things because there's other things like that. But on paper, he was a great therapist for, you know, grieving and loss and things like that. But when it came time to actually deal with it, he was focused all on trying to figure out the non monogamy and we were kind of interesting-- things like that.

Josh F 3:17
Well, I know the last time we went to... the last experience we actually had with a therapist where we're like, "Okay, we're gonna try a therapist instead of a coach." And I know we went and we found THE guy, and you know, like, best education, best this, best that, and actually paid out of pocket for it. And again, it was just-- we had a session-- I don't mean to demean the guy. He was super nice. I really felt like we got done and I'm like, "what the fuck did I just spent an hour talking about?" Right, it was completely unhelpful. So again, really important question. And yet at the same time, even though it is an important question, whenever we get asked it, I do find myself with a bit of a like (groan) feeling. And not because I mind talking about our training, like that's cool. But because it really isn't a great question. And I say that because whenever somebody's asking about qualifications, what they're really asking at the end of the day is, "Will this work for me? Is this the thing that's going to get us off the end of our union fighting and thinking we're incompatible and the verge of divorce, and that's going to save our family?"

Josh F 4:36
And training-- which actually, again, I'd say is different than qualifications-- is only one part of that. And it's not even the biggest part. So I'm like, that's not a great question. So I'm going to answer this question of what are our qualifications, but I'm going to answer it in the sense of what you actually should be looking at. What really moves the needle? And what should you be evaluating when it comes to healing a relationship? And this is going to be an interesting discussion, actually, because this is something I've been thinking about, and we haven't talked about yet. At least not in this way. We've touched on it before, but not quite in this way. So I think, you know, when you're looking at what does it actually take, to help someone transform their relationship? What are the qualifications that you should be looking for?

Josh F 5:35
I think it really comes down to paying the price and paying the price, specifically in three areas, and we kind of dive deep into these. But those three areas, I'd say, is your own experience with the problem, right? Training, which I actually dive a little deeper into than just what most people are asking when they're saying qualifications, and then paying the price in your experience of helping other people. So I want to dive into these because I think at the end of the day, these are really the qualifications that you need to be looking for. And the first piece that I would say, where people have to, like pay the price to be qualified to help somebody with a problem, I really think is having experience with having the problem themselves and solving it. And I'm curious to get your input, because I don't think this is like 100% always has to be the case. But I think it's actually a pretty big deal.

Cassie 6:48
So I think that there is cases where you don't have to necessarily have been in the exact situations, but you have to have gone through something fairly similar. Right? And the less life experience you've had, I think even more, you're gonna have to have that last one that you just talked about, in who you've helped, and things like that, right. So I think that there are cases where, yes, you don't necessarily have to have experienced the exact problem. But you've had to be in similar shoes. Does that make sense?

Josh F 7:37
It does. And here's what I think. And now that we're talking about this, here's where I think I would frame this. I don't necessarily think that in order to help somebody with a problem, you have to have lived it yourself. But when I look at the people I know who are truly great at solving a particular problem. They're the people who have been in that situation before. And you know, you and I are in a group of maybe like some of the top 50 coaches in the world in all different areas: relationships, health, business, you know, trauma, like all kinds of stuff. And anytime I look at anybody I know who is-- not just okay at something-- but truly great at it, they have lived the problem. And, you know, this is I think something that shows up in two ways right now that I'm seeing a lot of as far as where people haven't paid this price to be qualified in this way. The first is, it's getting really trendy right now to be a poly friendly therapist.

Cassie 8:46
Yeah, or poly friendly coach, life coach. Yeah, it's a thing.

Josh F 8:50
It's just that we've seen this a lot in the last couple years. And yet 95% of these people have no-- well, first, no experience but we'll talk about that later-- but actually no personal experience with polyamory.

Cassie 9:08
Yeah. And so they're spending a lot of time doing what I was talking about with that the therapist that I was talking about, which is like, sitting there spending their time like, "Hmm, this is very interesting, huh." You know, like trying to figure things out or giving advice that doesn't apply. Because they've never actually personally experienced going through that. So there's kind of an ignorance there.

Josh F 9:34
Well, and there's an ignorance, there's a disconnection from the problem. Right? But then you have the other side of this problem, which is you have a lot of people who want to give advice, who think that they're qualified to give advice and to have it heard and received because they're polyamorous. And yet they have shitty relationships. And I know this is something with our Facebook group especially, that cracks you up or like the people we get on the phone.

Cassie 10:09
Um, yeah, there are times that someone-- use our Facebook group as an example-- who, you know, people will ask questions in the group, and they'll be like, you know, help me out with XY and Z. And some of the loudest people-- and when I say loudest people, it's like, let me give you my five bullet point answer to your question and exactly what you should do-- are people that we've talked to. We know what's going on in their relationships, right. And when I say challenges in the relationships, I don't mean just challenges. Like, some of these people, their relationships are a train wreck. You know, arguing every day. They're throwing plates in the kitchen. Their children are talking about going and living with their grandparents, because they can't stand looking at their parents arguing and fighting every day. And yet, they're on Facebook, giving their five point outline of how exactly you should be handling your relationship when they're struggling, right. And I might sound a little passionate about this, but you know, us, you know, because we hold confidentiality, so, so tightly, we can't go on and be like,"Do not listen to this person. Like, they have no idea what they're talking about." As far as their relationship right? Their relationships are a demonstration of their knowledge of how to handle these challenges. And so, you know, they have all the advice in the world, yet their own personal relationships are not reflecting that, quote, unquote, knowledge that they have.

Josh F 11:47
And so I think this is the first place that you really have to pay the price to be qualified to be at least truly good at helping people with a particular problem. Right. I think you need to have lived with that problem. And you need to have solved that problem successfully. First off, if you can't solve it successfully for yourself, I mean, and you're having that problem, I mean, that just that kind of speaks for itself. But at the end of the day, you know, don't get me wrong, like going through the journey of having had a problem. And having solved that problem, it does not make you an expert, in helping other people fix that problem by any means. And I don't mean to get that, I don't mean to give that impression at all, because that is absolutely not the case. But what it does do is it gives you an understanding of the proble, of what it's like to live there, an understanding of the people who are going through that, and a passion to fix the problem. And like I said, anybody I know who is truly great at helping people solve a specific problem, they have lived that problem themselves. They have been in their shoes, and they have come out the other side. And that isn't what gave them their-- necessarily-- their skills to help others. But it's what gave them their fire to get really good and really passionate about helping people through that.

Cassie 13:20
That's what I was gonna say. I was gonna say it's getting that empathy, understanding for the problem and the passion to want to solve it.

Josh F 13:27
So that's the first place that I think people have to pay the price. And the second place that people have to pay the price is training. And this is really important. And in a way, I think this is what most people are talking about when they're talking about qualifications. But also not. And the reason I say that is because when when people are asking about qualifications, I think usually they're asking like, what are the letters behind your name? What are your certifications? Now, number one, that's kind of a whole different world in the coaching space than the therapy space. I mean, if you're a therapist, to be a therapist, you have to have certain certifications from certain places in order to do that. Coaching is much more of the Wild West in that way. But you know, even that, I would say, I mean, if you actually want to look at somebody's training, which I think that you should, I think people actually don't tend to go deep enough here. Because people are like, "Well, what are your qualifications?" It's like, "Oh, you have these three letters after name? Great". They don't ask any more questions. Well, I mean, shit. There's 100,000 people with those letters after their name. Right? I mean, you really think that's deep enough? And you know, I always think of your first coach, your first coach and the conversation you had with her about certifications. Do you remember that?

Cassie 14:56
A little bit. I'm not sure what part you're trying to touch on. But yeah. But I mean, in her experience, you know, she had some certifications and things like that. And a lot of those things didn't matter.

Josh F 15:10
Yeah, well, that was the conversation, right? You were just getting into coaching. You're like, "Okay, I'm gonna do this. Amd after this springs up, I'm gonna go and I'm gonna get certified through such and such school," which is probably the best known coaching school. And she was like, "Don't." She was like, mastered, this was iPEC, she was like, Master iPEC certified. And Cassie's like, "what?" And she's like, "Yeah, don't waste your time." She's like, "I spent, you know, you spend all that time and all that money. It looks good after name, and it doesn't really give you anything you need, as far as helping people. So I think you should look at training." I think it's definitely something you should evaluate. But I think you always need to go deeper, then even in therapy, where I think it does matter much more than coaching.

Josh F 15:54
You need to go into the actual training people have behind the name, because the people that I know, who are the best coaches, and even the best therapists, it isn't about the certifications. Right. It's about who did they work with? How good are their mentors, in terms of the training that they have. And that really at the end of the day, is what tends to matter. Right? So I mean, you know, when I get asked about our training, I'm like, "Yeah, you know, we've both been through a really intensive Academy and, you know, spent lots of time and lots of practice sessions and had lots of feedback and coaching input." And, and there's a lot to it. But really, I think the answer that anybody has to look at is who do you train with? Right? And for us, this is why I have no problem talking about training, because you know, the people that we work with, that we have, as mentors are people who are working with Olympic athletes, right, and fortune 500 CEOs. And, you know, I think our main coach who we actually go to, for coaching and have been trained through in coaching has coached, like three of the 10 richest people in the world. Like, those are the kinds of things that you need to look at, is the quality of the people and the mentors, that whoever you're looking at, has trained with. Is there anything else you want to throw on that?

Cassie 17:40
No, I think that covers that pretty well. Just making sure that it's not, "Oh, I spent six weeks training." Well, like anybody can do six weeks of any kind of training. Who are you training with? What is the, you know, experience and results of those mentors and the people that you've learned from? Versus, you know, the time? I mean, we spend a ton of time training. How much would you say...?

Josh F 18:08
I was actually going to talk about that.

Cassie 18:10
Okay, I was not trying to skip ahead. But, you know, you definitely should be spending time doing it. But anybody can say, "Oh, I, I did this certification. And it took me a couple of weeks to get it.' Like, what are you doing to actually, --you know, who's teaching you and what are you doing to keep those skills sharp and to continue to keep growing yourself?

Josh F 18:29
Yes, that's what I was gonna say next, right, is what I'm more interested in when I'm talking to somebody-- it isn't, well, you got a degree in something or a certification four years ago. I mean, that's great. Anybody can do that. What I'm more interested in is what does your ongoing education look like? Like how do you continue to invest in up leveling your skills? What do you continue to do? And most people don't do much or they do whatever, like, the bare minimum is for them to keep whatever certification they have, and they kind of mail it in. And I think that's a real shame, because so much of the skills that you can get as far as coaching and creating change in people's lives, is that the training that you get once you actually have some experience under your belt and the growth that you continue to rock, right. So for us, and this is, I think, is what you were about to talk about, you know, I look back, we've been doing this --what how many years now? 10.

Cassie 19:47
About a decade, yeah.

Josh F 19:49
About a decade with the coaching and we still spend an enormous amount of time and not just time, but money-- so many people stop investing in themselves-- in training. I actually just got numbers back from last year. I don't know if you've seen this or not. We invested like 80 grand in training.

Cassie 20:42
Doesn't surprise me.

Josh F 20:21
In 2021. I mean, this, this is what I think really separates ou,t when you're talking about training, the people who are truly excellent at what they do, from the people who aren't, is the way they continue to grow their skills once they're in. And it isn't just a money thing. It's a time thing. Right? Because I mean, we meet with our coaches, even to this day, even 10 years in... let me put it this way. We spend about three weeks and I mean, actual, like weeks gone traveling in training a year. And then on a weekly basis. What do you think like, three, four

Cassie 21:01
I'm trying to count my head.

Josh F 21:03
Nine hours a week, something like that?

Cassie 21:04
I was gonna say about eight to nine hours a week. Yeah.

Josh F 21:07
Every week for years. Like that's what it takes. I think. And that's when you're talking about looking at somebody's training, I think those are the really important things to look at. Right? It isn't just "Well, what are the letters you have, the qualifications?" And especially in the coaching space, because coaching, it is so scattershot with certifications, that it does tend to be like anybody can spin up a school and call it certification and anything like that. It really is a matter of: who did you train with? And how do you continue to invest in yourself and up leveling your skills as you go? Because I think that's when people get really good. It isn't like, whatever initial training they have coming into stuff. It's how they continue to train, and continue to work to master stuff while they're doing it. I've gone on a bit now, is there anything else you want to throw in?

Cassie 22:09
No, I think that about covers it. And just, you know, when we're saying this, we're saying this because when you're looking for someone who you want to work with, you want to make sure that you're getting the best at what is available. Not just you know, as you were describing it, someone who has a letter behind their their name. You want to make sure that you're working with the person who has invested in themselves to get you the best results that you can get, right? Your coach, the person who's guiding you, their investment of time, money, energy into their profession, is directly related to the results that they are getting for people, right? You only get great at doing something if you yourself are continuing to practice and work at it.

Josh F 23:03
So again, what makes somebody qualified to help you transform your relationship, to get you that result? Number one, they have to have paid the price as far as going through that problem and solving it, at least for them to be truly great at it. Number two, training. Paying the price in terms of training. And like I said, not just in whatever it took to get a certification, right, but in who they work with, and how they continue to invest in and uplevel themselves in their craft and their skills. But then the last piece, and this is the most important part, is their experience helping other people solve the problem. And this really is more important than anything else. At the end of the day. I mean, they're all related. You know, I think the people who tend to be really good at helping people get results tend to have gone through it themselves, they tend to have trained and invested in themselves at a really high level and in their skills. But at the end of the day, what really makes somebody qualify where you really have to pay a price to get good at helping people solve a problem, is by helping people solve that problem and doing it effectively.

Cassie 24:20
For a bunch of different kinds of people who have the same problem, right? It's not just like that, "I was able to do this once and duplicate it once and now I'm an expert at it," but like you're able to duplicate progress, results, you know, with multiple people who are having similar challenges. Not just one or two. One or two is a fluke, you know. It's kind of like that whole, a broken clock is right twice a day. But to really, really be someone who is able to serve others and when you're, you know, because you're talking about from the standpoint of what others should be looking for, you want to be making sure that you're finding someone who can duplicate that.

Josh F 25:04
Well, I think there's a really important caveat to what you're saying, where I see people slip up a lot-- is they have to really have a lot of experience helping people solve this problem.

Cassie 25:21
Not just any problem.

Josh F 25:22
Not just any problem. Not just like, you know, they've gotten some people some results with weight loss, and they've gotten some people some results with, you know, dealing with stuff in their childhood and some other people with results with depression and some other people some results with--

Cassie 25:36
Learning to tango.

Josh F 25:37
Learning how to tango or to quitting smoking. Like, that's not paying the price. That's not paying the price, where you're getting the knowledge, to the repetitions, to where you can see something and be like, "Yeah, I've seen this before, know how to deal with it." That's not paying the price. They have to pay the price in terms of helping people solve this problem. Right. Anything else you want to say on that side of things?

Cassie 26:08

Josh F 26:09
Okay. So here's what I think is really great about this, though, is you can measure this. This is something--this is what I love about this qualification-- is, you know, you can look and you can get into well, how much training is enough? And who is really good? And how do you judge that? And, you know, they trained under this person. How great is that? And that's stuff that most people won't even know. Right? I mean, did you know who some of the best coaches were in the world before you started? I didn't. Like, I didn't recognize the names. I didn't know. But the thing about experience is, that is something that can be measured, and it can be measured in terms of results. And this is always the most important question you should be asking yourself when you're looking at how qualified somebody is, to help you fix a problem. How many people like me, has this person helped solve these problems? You have to be able to answer that question.

Cassie 27:29
Yeah, how many people have gone through the challenge I am, work with this person. And on the other side, was happy and satisfied and got where they wanted to be the place that I want to be? Right? Like, how many of their clients have had that experience of being able to get there? And does this person have the ability to show me that to show me that there is other people that they have helped?

Josh F 27:57
Well, that's why I say this is measurable. Like this is something you can look and you can see. Right? So us personally, we have, you know, videotape testimonials of our clients talking about the kinds of changes they make and how they got from jealous and hurt and suffering and the brink of losing everything to transforming the relationships. We have reviews from people-- where we send out, you know, invites to every single client that goes through our course, and they can post reviews about us--we don't get any feedback and what exactly they're saying. But this is stuff that you can measure. And this really is the most important thing, because again, at the end of the day, everything else is kind of like subjective. And we're talking about the quality of training and this and that. And did they solve this problem for themselves? Like, that's all kind of subjective, in a way. But results don't lie. And results are what really do matter. Because, again, what you're really asking when you're talking about qualifications, is "Will this work for me?" So Cassie, what should people be looking for when they're trying to like evaluate results?

Cassie 29:18
Um, well, first of all, like, look into the person's client. So you're talking about reviews, right? Like are their clients raving about them, about the support they've gotten, the results they've gotten? So that's going to be in, you know, video testimonials, right? That's going to be in write up. And write ups you gotta be a little cautious with because if it's a write up, there's no picture. There's no content, you know, and anybody can write something up on their website. So you want to make sure that you're looking for things that are more verified: reviews, or especially things that have like real pictures, not stock images. Like real pictures of real people, people's names. Honestly, I recommend video review. Just because like, it's a real person, right?

Josh F 30:05
I don't think anybody in this space is going into a deep enough to hire actors to fake video reviews.

Cassie 30:10
Yeah. I really hope not. But that's at least the most, you know, most accurate way to evaluate is like video testimonials or audio testimonials where you can hear people. And being able to listen to those people and hear where they had struggles, right? Not just like a clip of them being like, "That coaching was cool," and nothing else. But like their experiences, like what actually they got through this experience, right? Like, where they were at, where they got into, being able to hear about, you know, who they are versus just like, you know, a smiling person saying, "Yes, this was cool," with no context. Like actually being able to see that. I think that's really, really important.

Josh F 30:58
Yeah, I would say, Okay, number one, they have to be people kinda like you, right? Like I said, like, or at least, you know, suffer from the same kinds of problems. They can't be, "Here's this person who helped me lose 20 pounds," and what you're trying to do is save your marriage. So that would be that. And like you said, especially, I'm seeing a lot more fake reviews starting to pop up, even in this space. So, you know, video reviews, audio reviews, stuff on verified websites, like Trustpilot-- I talk about Trustpilot, because that's what we use, but there's a couple of others--where people actually don't get any input. Like, Trustpilot, we have to send reviews out to everybody. We can't get stuff taken down. We can't get stuff edited. Like what's there is there. So stuff like that. But this is really important. And this is where I actually see people making a huge mistake, is people will pay attention to the letters after somebody's name, like that's what they'll think when they think qualified, but they won't look for somebody who's paid the price in terms of experience, and who has the results to prove it. How many people do you know who hire-- whether it's coaches or therapists or whatever-- have absolutely no background on the results they've gotten for other people? I think it's the majority majority

Cassie 32:16
The majority. I would defintiely say it is.

Josh F 32:18
Which is an enormous mistake. Because you have basically, you have them being like, "Yeah, I can help you. I'm pretty good at this." And you're taking them at their word. Like, you wouldn't do that for a toaster on Amazon. It's just nuts to me. So this is the most important thing that you can look at, like when you're talking about qualified. Man, if you are in a place where you're looking for help, especially with your relationship, the most important thing in your life, like you're looking for help in saving your family and keeping your kids under one roof and spending the rest of your life with your partner and getting away from the brink of divorce. And this person can't give you proof they've done that for other people before. You're not in the right place. You're just not. Why risk it?

Josh F 33:12
Like I said you wouldn't do that for a toaster on Amazon. Seriously, I would love if I took 100 people who have gone and trusted somebody to save their relationship, who did not see one piece of client results from that perso, I guarantee you I could take 99 of those people and have them go buy a toaster on Amazon they would not do without looking at at least even if they don't read at least the little stars first.

Cassie 33:45
And we're kind of getting a little off into like the silly here.

Josh F 33:49
No, I'm not I'm dead serious.

Cassie 33:51
I'm saying the tone of it is getting off to being sounding a little silly. But this is this is true, right? We don't go--I'm gonna keep going with the toaster analogies since you said it-- we don't go, "Well the people posting the toaster said this toaster is amazing," right? We're looking at the other people who have dealt with this situation, who have had this experience that have ,you know, invested in that toaster and the time in that toaster to know and to be able to say "hey, this is a great toaster," or not. Right. You don't just listen to the person who's posting the toaster on Amazon, right. Like, you pay attention to what other people have to say about their experience who's actually had the toaster.

Josh F 34:40
I can't believe we're talking about toasters, but this just really drives this home to me.

Cassie 34:43
It does and as I said, we're kind of saying this in jest and kind of like a funny thing, but it's dead serious. We do this. I mean, literally, we had a mouse in the house and I was looking for a mousetrap and like you're talking about a toaster. I spent a good 35 minutes reading about the reviews of different mousetraps.

Josh F 35:05
Now let me ask you, though, how many of the relationship coaches that are relationship coaches or relatiobship experts--I say experts, because you know, it's therapists or it's counselors, coaches, it depends on where you live and who you're hiring-- that we worked with, did you ever see client results from?

Cassie 35:27
I didn't. The last one. The last person that we went out of pocket for who was recommended. And as you said, like, was other folks had said had done stuff. And like, we worked with him, and it was just wasn't...Yeah. But that was the only one. I think, you know, the one that we were looking at--when we were going through the stuff with my health and your stuff--I put in like relationship coach, or counselor with, you know, lifestyle friendly. And he popped up and I was like, "Cool. My insurance covers this person." Like that was as far of a thing that I did. I mean, this was years and years ago. If I had to do it now., right, it would certainly be different. Right? The health coach that we got a couple years ago, you know--

Josh F 36:25
That was a whole different story. That was a really good example. Actually.

Cassie 36:29
Yeah. We had a completely different approach to it. But as far as back then, you know, literally, I Googled, I found someone who took our insurance. And that was it.

Josh F 36:40
That's actually a really good example, though. So we had a health coach, maybe last year, to help us get over some really long term chronic health stuff. And it was different for each of us. For me, it had more to do with like, energy in my nervous system being turned up way too high from my last job and pain, and you had some pain and some stuff like that. And you know, it's funny, because I didn't actually know what his qualifications were when we hired him. Because I knew a lot of people had worked with him and have gotten amazing results. I knew he was working with, like, Olympic athletes, and actors and actresses, and like, people whose names I recognized, and other people I knew who gave him like, rave reviews. And it was funny, cause somebody asked me actually-- we had been working with him for like, a year-- and like, we gotten all these health problems solved, and somebody was like, Well, "what titles and qualifications does he have?" It was like.. wizard?

Cassie 37:38
Health wizard.

Josh F 37:39
I said, I don't know. Like, I don't know, I never even asked. It wasn't as important as the results that he'd gotten for people. And the fact that when I talked to him, it was really clear that he actually understood the problem and the solution.

Cassie 37:54
Yes, it was very clear when we had an initial consult kind of conversation, where he took a look at what was going on with us. And we did separate ones because it was for separate health things. And he like nailed--

Josh F 38:09
I've got a perfect example of this. This is what expertise looks like. And this is the other thing by the way, folks-- I mean, these places of paying the price, you definitely should pay attention to especially the results. But one of the other pieces-- and I'll just throw this in there-- is you can tell who's an expert and who's not. A lot of times when you talk to somebody. So with this guy, I'll never forget because we were doing a zoom. He'sin England. And we were doing a zoom thing with him. And Cassie is walking.

Cassie 38:43
Oh, we're going to talk about my--

Josh F 38:44
Yeah, Cassie's walking. And he's like, "Walk back again. What-- is one of your legs shorter than the other?" And Cassie has a leg that is a quarter of an inch shorter than her other leg. And this guy could tell over a webcam on Zoom. Like that. But I'm digressing.

Cassie 39:08
Yeah, he could tell. And I would say another thing was the questions that he asked. Like, I didn't have to be like, "You know, let me go through the last 40 years--" I'm almost 40 years old now-- "of my medical history." He asked certain questions and by asking those questions, he got to the places that I was trying to work on. He got to the places where I was unhappy with my health because he's done this so much. He's worked with so many people on their health, that he already knew the questions to ask. I didn't have to like, give sheets and sheets and sheets and sheets of information. He got to understanding it in a couple of minutes into the conversation. So you can really tell someone who's an expert by the questions that they're asking you. As far as like, what's going on.

Josh F 40:05
Yeah. So that digressing a little bit. Just made me think about that. He's a health wizard. I actually asked him afterwards, why didn't he gave me a whole list of things? Like I had never even asked before. Um, so at the end of the day, folks, like I said, I want to get back to this because I know it's a really important question. And at the same time, it's a question that I think people ask without really understanding what they should be looking at when they're talking about qualifications. And as I said, when I would, and look. I've been involved in the-- not just healing relationship space, but the personal development space--for a very long time. And like I said, I've worked with some truly amazing people, some of the best the best. And I would tell you, again, that when you're talking about qualifications, what you really need to be looking at, if you want somebody who's really gonna be able to get you results and heal your relationships and get your family to the place that you want. Really, they need to have paid the price in three areas, right. First, again, for them to be really truly great and having gone through a problem and solved it. Maybe not that exact, like specific, like every detail the same, but something close, same kind of challenges, right? Second piece is their training. But again, not just their certifications, or what letters after the name, but actually like, who has trained them, who have they worked with, how good are their mentors, and more importantly, like, what kind of ongoing investment in time, and effort and investment money have, they used to continue to invest in themselves and growing their skills and mastering their craft? And then lastly, the most important because, again, you know, part of the problem, when you're really talking about the training is you probably don't really know what's good training and what's not and who's good and who's not from the outside. The most important piece is they've paid the price in terms of experience helping other people, like you, solve these kinds of problems. And that's the most important one, not just because it's closest to that end goal of getting you the result. But because this out of everything else is measurable, and it's easily measurable. All you have to do is look at the results they've gotten for other people like you, and if they've helped other people, like you solve these problems and their relationships, and have gotten to a beautiful place. Anything you want to tack on top of that?

Cassie 42:58
No, I think that sums that really well.

Josh F 43:01
Okay, folks. So that was maybe a long answer to what our qualifications but quite honestly, it was the answer that you need, not so much for us. Because at the end of the day, you talk to us, and you'll grasp all this intuitively, pretty quickly. You can tell an expert when you talk to them. But because more so, this is what you should be keeping in mind when you're evaluating qualifications for any expert that you are looking to help you fix the problem in your life and expecially when you're talking about the most important things in our lives, right, which is our relationships and our families and the people that we love. Now, if you're looking for help, now, if you need help solving these problems and healing your relationships from people who actually are qualified and are qualified in the most important ways of actually helping people solve these problems, you can absolutely reach out, we're happy to do that for you, just like we have for so many other people. You can go to, you'll see our calendar, grab up a time, you'll go to a short little application, you'll have some information that we need. Fill that out, we'll get on the phone with you at the time that you picked, and really walk through what are the problems or what is going on, what needs to happen to heal your relationship. We'll come up with a plan to make that happen. So like I said That will all be right there for you. All right. It is great chatting with you all again. We will see you all here again next week. Maybe either we should bring Amanda on or you and I should actually host chat about the RV thing and some of what's been going on with that. It'll be good,

Cassie 45:00
That'll be fun.

Josh F 45:01
But until then, y'all take care and we will see you all very soon.

Josh F 45:12
Thanks for tuning into today's show. We release new episodes every week. So make sure to subscribe.

Cassie 45:19
Ff you're ready to transform your relationship and you'd like to see if you're a fit to work with us, here's what I want you to do next. Head over to and book an appointment to speak with our team. We'll get on the phone with you for about an hour. And we'll get you crystal clear on three things. What's really not working in your relationships, what your dream relationships would look like and a step by step plan to close the gap and save your family even if nothing has worked before.

Josh 45:46
We talk with hundreds of non monogamous folks like you every year. And here's the truth. Building loving, thriving relationships-- that doesn't happen on its own. You need expert guidance to make that happen. And unfortunately, when you are building relationships outside the box, that's impossible to find and we get it. But that's exactly what we do. We've helped clients all over the world, save their families, get the passion back and become best friends again.

Cassie 45:46
So if you want to see if we can help you do the same head over to I'm Cassie

Josh 46:18
And I'm Josh. Let's talk soon