Why You Can’t Find Polyamorous Women

Josh 0:01
All right, so are you non-monogamous and you're a man and you're in a relationship and you're like, "Oh my God, there is nobody. There are no women out here. No non-monogamous women out here who want to date non-monogamous men." Alright, well if that sounds like you, we are going to jump deep into that today. So stay tuned.

Cassie 0:45
Here at Touch of Flavor, we teach non-monogamous folks how to overcome their obstacles and build thriving relationships.

Josh 0:51
This podcast is about answering one question: how do you create loving, passionate, secure relationships outside the box? Even if nothing has ever worked before? If you want to know the answer, you're in the right place.

Cassie 1:05
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Josh 1:15
All right, everybody. So Cassie, you brought this topic. Please tell me, what are we talking about today?

Cassie 1:22
So we see this a lot. Like it comes up in our Facebook probably at least a couple of times a week we'll see things on this. And even some of our clients when they first come to us. And they're talking to us about their relationship challenges. What they bring is this idea of, "Well, I am a cis-man. And I am non-monogamous. And me and my partner decided that we're going to open our relationship. And I can't find any women who are interested in dating me because I am married or partnered" --and it's usually married. But sometimes it can be like a long-term committed partnered person. "And because of that, none of them want to date me. And that's causing problems in my relationship."

Josh 2:13
Yeah, and usually it looks like this. It's like, "Because I can't find anybody and my partner's got somebody-- well, I'm jealous. And then because I'm jealous, now we're fighting and we're disconnected. And we're this and we're that. But really, if I could just find somebody to date, it would be fine. But I can't find anybody to date because there's no women-- non-monogamous women-- who want to date married men in insert-my-state-here." I hear that all the time. Yeah, like, there's just nobody in this whole state who wants to date. And it's funny. I say, I hear this all the time. I know you see this. I deal a lot more with the like calls, like our breakthrough calls with people. I do hear it, but I don't think I get the full impact of just how common this is.

Cassie 3:02
Oh, I mean, it is and that's why I was like--I'm using the Facebook group as an example. We had a post where there was a woman who was like, "My husband--we're fighting all the time. He wants me to break it off my other partner. He's angry. And the big problem in our relationship is that he can't find any women to date him who are non-monogamous because he's married."

Josh 3:30
Actually my last call--I don't think I told you this. But my last call I had right before we recorded this was one of these. Though they did acknowledge there was other problems. But it was one of these calls.

Cassie 3:39
And what ends up happening is you know, someone will post something like this and there was a good 15-20 guys who got on who were like, "This is so true. This is absolutely right. I don't have partners either. I'm stuck being the... "and I hate when men say this, but, "I'm stuck being a cuckold because my wife now has a boyfriend and I'm not able to find anybody." And there's a lot of this like comments around , basically, "I'm a man. I can't find women who want to date a non-monogamous man who's in a long term committed relationship."

Josh 4:19
Well, like you said, there's a lot of "and it's causing problems." So where do we want to start to unravel this? I kind of want to start with: are there men to date women? And then kind of move into the relationship.

Cassie 4:31
Are there men to date women? I don't know what you mean.

Josh 4:35
Are there women-- like there aren't any women. Like address that part first, and then kind of move into the "it's causing problems." Can I just start here? So when you and Amanda-- we really need to start, and we've talked about this before-- we really need to start recording ourselves on our drives. Like, if there was a way to podcast while we're taking long family drives places, you all would get some absolute gold. And usually the conversations start with Cassie and Amanda being like, "Here's this thing we see all the time, Josh, because you don't get on Facebook," and me being like, "What? What?" And I've got to be honest with you. Even though I do hear this I don't give it a lot of thought because usually I'm like, "Okay, let's let's talk about what's actually going on in your relationship".

Cassie 5:18
Yeah, what are the real problem?

Josh 5:20
What are the real problems? But, I have to tell you, when we were talking about this yesterday and you and Amanda bring this up, I was just like, "what?" Should I start to explain why or do you want to start to explain why?

Cassie 5:35
I think as a woman, it might be helpful for me to start.

Josh 5:39
Please do.

Cassie 5:40
So guys, I want you to listen real quick. Okay, pay real close attention. How much sense does it make that non-monogamous women don't want to date non-monogamous men? Just hold that for a second. I'm non-monogamous. I want to date non-monogamously. But I don't want to date-- and I'm attracted to men, like obviously, like, that's a problem. But, I'm attracted to men. I want to date a man. But I don't want to date a non-monogamous man?

Josh 6:19
Yeah, this is why I think I was doing that "what" thing. Let's play this out for a minute. Okay. So first and foremost, most of the studies that I've seen and statistics I've seen indicate that as far as people actually in relationships, like consensual non-monogamy, there's a slightly higher percentage of women than men. And, even if you look at relationships, now, a lot of times it's the woman who is bringing the topic. And I see this reflected in our breakthrough calls, too. But I mean, even leaving that aside, and let's just say it's an even split. This is where this starts to break down. So okay, let's just say half of the non-monogamous population is women. And most of the women I talk to, they might like women, but they're also looking for men. And I'm not saying there aren't people out there who aren't. But like, if they're with a man in the first place, a lot of times they're also looking to date other men.

Cassie 7:15
There's a bell curve, right? And there's always going to be a percentage of people who are gay and lesbian or queer. There's going to be people who are straight. And, you know...

Josh 7:25
Cassie falls on that queer bell curve. Which I get. Okay, but again...

Cassie 7:30
There's still a chunk of people. There's a good chunk. There's a big chunk of people who are looking for men.

Josh 7:37
And like you said, okay, so they're looking for men. And then there's this-- "There's no non monogamous women out there want to date men." So who are they wanting to date? I mean, you really have to play this out. Because the answer would then be single monogamous men. So following this train of thought down-- I'm a non-monogamous woman. I probably have another relationship that's taking up a significant amount of my time, right? I want something that I'm only going to give so much time and attention and focus to. And also I probably don't want a lot of drama in my life. You know that would probably be great. So I want to date a monogamous man who's not going to have anybody else, not understand non monogamy, want all of my time... It just falls apart. Pretty quick. When you look at it.

Cassie 8:39
Yeah, it's ridiculous. It's just, it's ridiculous.

Josh 8:43
Why do you think, if it's so ridiculous on the face, why do you think it persists? And we'll talk about why people have the problems. But why do you think?

Cassie 8:50
I think that there's a couple of things. I thin-- and this is the truth of a lot of myths, in general, like, especially around polyamory, things like that-- is it is easier to believe a myth than to look at what you're doing wrong. It is so much easier to sit back and be like, this is a problem, that there's no non-monogamous women out there that want to date men, then to say, there is no non-monogamous women out there that want to date me. Think about that for a second. It's a lot easier. It's so much easier to blame it on this like broad spectrum of a problem versus having to look inwardly at yourself and who you are showing up as and these potential interactions, what you're wanting, what you're needing, and we'll go into more of those things. But it is so much easier-- and this is the truth with a lot of polyamorous myths that I see-- it's a lot easier to blame it on this like broad problem that you can't tackle, than to go "You know what, I might have some work I need to do". So I think that is one of the reasons why it perpetuates and talking about the men in the Facebook group being like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes... is because they're the same people. They're the same people who are sitting there who have had the challenges, who it feels really good to find other people to complain about the world versus having to work on yourself. Right? It becomes that like, "Oh, look, there's five other people who have the same problem, and are saying it's not their problem." It's this universal problem that can't be tackled. So now, I get to be sort of the victim in this, versus having to be the person who has to overcome potential challenges that maybe my relationship or I am creating.

Josh 10:51
Well and do you notice-- on the note of this-- do you notice how the people who have trouble finding partners are always the people who have trouble finding partners, and the people who don't always the people who don't? And it isn't about the gender. I mean, you can look at--and this is the other thing, I guess that gets me with, like, you know, especially coming from more of a kink background-- which is, you'll look at these people, like these guys who are like, married and they're like, 70. And like, they're macking it man. They're mackign it. I mean, they've got like-- it isn't about looks, and it isn't about like...

Cassie 11:34
Yeah, it's personality. It's skill sets. It's how they're showing up. It's their confidence. It's the makeup of who they are as a person, not necessarily their physical trait.

Josh 11:49
So I think it would be good then, because I think we've kicked this a bunch. But like I said, I can tell you, for everyone who's like-- I mean, I know you had somebody the other day say, "You know, there's just no non-monogamous women in Maryland who want to..." We live in Maryland. I can promise you, there are plenty of women who want to date non-monogamous men.

Cassie 12:13
Yeah, particularly would like to date non-monogamous men who have a more committed relationship, because they do, right? Like, you got to think about this. If I'm married, I'm non-monogamous, I've got kids, I've got the family, I've got X, Y, and Z. Like, I'm looking for a partner who might be partnered versus somebody who isn't going to be able to handle that. It's very hard to be in a relationship with somebody, as someone who has a family and that sort of thing, dating somebody who's like, "I've got nothing else going on."

Josh 12:46
But you know, I know plenty of people even who don't have more committed relationships. I think you and I, we were all talking-- all three of us were talking about this yesterday. This was Amanda actually, who's saying this.-- who would still rather date somebody who's... and Amanda was saying that yesterday. She's like, "It's comfortable. Like there's already a level of stability there going into that, like there's already a level of stability in that person's life. And that translates through to the relationship with me." And I know, we've talked to other people. Okay, so what are-- and I think we can break it down into really two things. Right. There's that confusing the problem and the solution. And I want to save that maybe for closer to the end. But let's talk about the first problem that we see. I mean, unless I guess you could break it down into two.

Cassie 13:34
I think there's two parts. I think there's the mindset of it. And I think that there's the actual like application of like what you're doing .

Josh 13:40
Okay, well spit it out. Let's go.

Cassie 13:41
So I think first of all, a lot of people go into dating, and they have a hiccup. And guess what? When you date, it's not always like sunshine and roses. There's going to be challenges there. There's gonna be difficulties. And especially, let's say you've been married for 25 years, you just opened up your relationship. You haven't dated. There's going to be a little bit of a learning curve. And so there's this mindset of going into it, that it's difficult. It's hard. It's, you know, impossible.

Josh 14:12
"I'll never find somebody up to my standards". You had somebody say the other day.

Cassie 14:15
And I was getting to that. "I am never gonna find someone to my standards. This person needs to be, you know, smart, and intelligent and pretty, and this and this, and this." And, like, here's the thing, you can have your standards. I think it is really, really important to have standards. Like when I'm talking to our clients about dating, I'm like, it is important to know what you're attracted to and what you're wanting. But there's a difference between having your standards and believing that your standards do not exist. If you think your standards don't exist, then either you need to check your standards, or you need to check your beliefs. And that's really what I'm talking about-- is this belief that there's nobody out there who's going to be able to meet my standards, like "I want an 11 and there just isn't elevens out there." Right like this idea that there's just not anybody who's going to meet up to those things. Well, if you believe that, that's like me saying I am not going to accomplish something, right? Like anytime you believe that you're not going to do something, well, guess what? You're not going to do it. Because you approach things differently. You know, if I think, when I walk into a play party, for example. If I think I am gorgeous, I am desirable. And there is women here who are amazing, beautiful women who are going to click with me, how am I going to show up in that room? I'm going to show up there lit up with confidence. And that's what I do. When we go to play parties, I go in with kind of like this mantra of there is bisexual beautiful women who I'm going to connect with. And we're going to have similar kinks, and we're going to connect on an awesome level. That's how I go into the room. And you know what, magically, I start to connect with people. And that doesn't mean every single play party that I walk into, there's somebody that I like-- but I have this feeling that it's going to happen, and a lot of times it does. But if I go in, and I'm like, "There's just no available bisexual women here. No one's gonna meet my standards. There's even that really beautiful girl over there who seems to like the same things I do, there's got to be something wrong with her. There's got to be something wrong with that person." And if I'm going in that way, I'm going to find problems. And I'm also not going to act in a way that's going to be attractive.

Josh 16:30
That's what I was going to say. I mean, if you're approaching it-- just using as that example, in this "there's nobody out there who's good enough for me" mentality of things. How do you think that's gonna come across when you're talking to people? I mean, to think that that's what you're going to think. And that's not going to bleed through in your tone, and your word choice. And the conversations you're having is just to be completely delusional about how human behavior works. Like, when we talk about intuition, there's a reason for that. It's because these things come through and come out. And so you have that mindset piece of it. And then you also have this idea of: what are you offering? This idea of fair. So I like talking about this in terms of fairness, and that might be an easy way to frame it when I've written about this before. You know, I've written about it in terms of fairness and fairness being something not that is necessary, I don't know, maybe it's gonna be easier to start to break this down from the front actually. That's kind of jumping right to the end. But this idea of fairness, you want to talk about that?

Cassie 17:48
Well, yeah. So you know, I was just talking to someone the other day. And he was one of these people who was in this position of being like, "There is no non-monogamous women who want to date non-monogamous men, and I'm just never gonna find anybody, and that's what's causing problems in my relationship." We'll put that other piece to the side, as we said, we'll talk a little bit more about that later. But basically, you know, as we got into it, I was asking, like, "What is it that you're looking for? What is it that you're offering?" And it started looking like this. "Well, you know, I'm a really busy person, and I would only be able to give that person one day a week, and I would only be able to really be able to do like, maybe one overnight a month. I'd be able to give maybe one day out of a week. And you know, they're gonna have to understand that I've got a wife and kids and a job, and I'm really busy. And you know, with that, I really want this person to be someone who is really intellectual and is going to keep me stimulated, and is going to be willing to do XY and Z. And, I also am really interested in power exchange, and I want them to be my dominant, and send me stuff all the time for me to do. But I don't really have time for them XY and Z." So it's, it turns into this thing of like, I want this person to give me all this time and energy and do all these things for me, but I'm only really able to offer one day a week for a couple of hours and maybe an overnight once a month.

Josh 19:29
And with that person too, wasn't there... because we were talking about this yesterday. Wasn't there also kind of an expectation of-- not necessarily that they won't date anybody-- but basically, "I will be their primary relationship. Even though I'm balancing a wife and have kids and all this other stuff that absolutely compromises my time."

Cassie 19:45
Yep. And this person would be, "I'll be their primary partner. While I was giving them one day a week, and one overnight a month."

Josh 19:56
And so this is something that we see a lot, folks is... there becomes this-- and this ties into standards, right? And people having standards that are unrealistic. This is basically the same conversation. A lot of times when we see people who are having trouble dating, some of it is, like you said, the mindset around that. A lot of times, though, there's a really big disconnect between what people are looking for, and what they're offering. And for some reason, in non-monogamy, there seems to be a real lack of attention to that in a way that would never happen in dating monogamously. I feel like people can go way into this unbalanced place in a way that they never would if we were talking about a monogamous relationship. But somehow, because we're not monogamous it'sokay. And, you know, here's the thing that you have to realize, folks. There isn't like a--when we're talking about... so this is where I like to distinguish equality and fairness, right? There doesn't have to be equality in relationships in the same way that what I'm giving from this relationship, and what you're giving is the exact same, because that never happens. And the things that we're taking away, aren't the exact same, either. And, you know, nowhere can you see a bigger example of this than in Power Exchange, which we'll talk about in a minute. Right? So there doesn't have to be equality, but there does have to generally be some degree of fairness, for people to be interested.

Josh 21:41
So that the really stark example that I give for this is talking about-- Okay, so we're a couple, and this is something we see all the time. We're a couple. I know this is taking out of the male, the man woman thing a little bit, but like, "We're a couple, and we want to find our unicorn. But here's the thing. So we're married. We've got a family. We're gonna spend seven days a week together. So on and so forth. And we want you to come in. But here's the thing, we don't want you to have anybody else that you're dating. Now we can only give you a night a week. We don't want you have anybody else that you're dating. And also, we want to have sex with you, but only when both of us are here. Right now, when we're not both here you can't sleep with either of us. But you also can't sleep with anybody else. Okay. And by the way, just know there really isn't a lot of a future here. So our family, kids, that kind of thing. You're going to be the dirty little secret. You're never going to be the partner. But like, we'll have a damn good time when you come out to play parties. And then thereyou'll be our hot little thing." Like, this is a discussion that's there all the time. And I'm taking it to an extreme. But folks, here's what you have to think about. Is that something that your average person who is like a healthy human.. Is that really a degree of what they're getting out versus they're putting in, that they're going to be interested? And the answer is no. And honestly, you get to a certain point, and that degree of unfairness, where if the person is okay with that, that's actually more of a red flag. Like the kind of person who would say yes to that is somebody I personally would be incredibly cautious about dating. Because that says a lot about the way they value themselves, what their expectations are, how they're going to stick up for themselves. Like that says a lot.

Cassie 23:34
Yeah. So kind of bringing it back to the conversation that we were having is, things don't necessarily have to be equal. But there has to be a layer of fairness there. And one of the things that we're seeing with a lot of the men who get into this is, there isn't that fairness, right? There's this idea of, "I want you to be occupied with me. I want you texting me every day. I want you doing X, Y and Z, but you know, I can barely fit you in my schedule." Or, you know, one of the othe great examples that I see is...I was talking to another gentleman, you know, a little while ago, and he's like, "I want a woman who's absolutely fit. I want someone who's athletic who goes running a couple times a week, who is gorgeous, who's this, who does that, who does this, is really really self-conscious about what they eat. "And, you know, I'm talking to him about this and I was like, "Oh, so like, you're gonna go running with this person and like, you diet." And he's like, "Well, fuck, no, I eat burritos." So like, what you're looking for is you're wanting this thing, but you're also not going to be that person. You're going to be sitting there eating burritos next to the person that you want to be fit and skinny and you're not doing things for you to present that way. Right. So it comes down to not just this fairness, but also when you're looking for something, if you're really looking for someone. If you're looking for someone who is super smart and into reading books and you know, X, Y, and Z. Are you doing that? If you're looking for someone who is growing themselves and bettering themselves, are you doing that? Like, are you willing to offer the same amount of commitment in the things that you're wanting from somebody else?

Josh 25:21
And it's taking a step back from that for a moment. So those standards are there. Right. And here's the other piece of this too, which is what's interesting is when I hear a lot of people talking about this. Really what they're looking for, is they're not looking to date non-monogamous women as a non-monogamous man. They're basically looking for a monogamous woman. That's not what they're saying. But when you get right down to the details of it, they basically want to be non-monogamous. But they want somebody else to have to have a relationship with them, that person is monogamous. And you're right, that is hard to find. Now it does get hard. Yeah, you're absolutely right. If you want to be non-monogamous, and you want to find somebody who you know, wants to take that little bit, but be basically like, monogamous, you're right. You're gonna have a hard way to go. Absolutely. And then you bring in-- So you have this whole disconnect in the non-monogamy to begin with. And then when you bring in people who are interested in power exchange, I feel like it just kicks up to even another level of this where people who have not been around that lifestyle have this idea that "Okay, well, unfairness, you're right, that's a problem. Unless it's kinky, and then I can be 10 times as unfair and they'll like it. Because I'm a dom and their a sub." I didn't even have to take it any farther. I'm not gonna say anything else.

Cassie 26:51
Yeah, so you know, it's this idea of, "Well, I'm a Dom. If I tell you to go clean my house, and do this, and do that."

Josh 27:00
You'll do it, and you'll be happy to do it, god dammit, cuz that's what gets you off.

Cassie 27:03
"That's what gets you off. And you know, what, I'm not gonna spend any time with you, or do anything else with you." Like, here's the thing. Yes, maybe in your power exchange that person does more of the the chores. Maybe that person likes those things. But this is where this whole idea of a power exchange is. It's not a power you just give to somebody else. Like, it's not just giving somebody chores. Power dynamics feed off of the energy that both people are bringing, right? Like, you should be bringing just as much energy and commitment into a relationship as the other person is. And I don't understand how people don't get this. As a dominant person, as someone who goes in that role. Just because somebody else might be doing more of the chores doesn't mean that I'm not providing less time. That doesn't mean that I'm not doing things to create kinky interactions and things like that. Like, it's not like, "Hey, I'm just like, handing you off my laundry list of things to do and go be happy." You know, it's about having that time and commitment and energy. And here's the thing, even in a power dynamic, there's a relationship that has to be fostered where that person feels loved and adored and cared, even as a submissive.

Cassie 28:19
Yeah, this is-- so when we're talking to people who have this idea, I can tell that they learned about non-monogamy, or they learned about power change from like books on the internet. Because this is something that anybody who spent any time around the actual leather master slave community, which we did a significant amount of time for a period of time, you know. We were teaching at conferences and that kind of stuff before we kind of stepped back from that a bit. But, you know, when you get in there, what you see is those masters are pouring into their slaves, and it's this whole conversation like masters and service. And while the kinds of effort that people put in are certainly different--hile the kind of effort a master and a slave are going to put in are very different-- there isn't like an inherent unfairness in the amount of effort and commitment and energy and time that's being put into. I mean, sure, you always have the outliers, like 99% of those relationships, and most of the ones that I would consider to be really truly healthy. And so when you see people who are expected to use a power exchange as a way to make things more unfair-- this is what I was saying to you yesterday, like the people I know who are really in that lifestyle, honestly are giving even as a dominant, master or whatever you're calling that side of the slash.

Cassie 29:46
Uppercase.

Josh 29:48
--are giving far more effort and time then most people who are like, "Hey, I'm married, have a relationship and also want to date somebody on the side," are giving. Not less. Yeah, anything else you want to say about that? So I would really encourage you to to examine that level of fairness because again, like slapping power exchange in front of it does not change the arithmetic there for people who are-- again, at least not for the people you'd actually want to date. Like, if you're a dominant and you're looking for a submissive, slave, whatever to give you, X, Y, and Z, you can find people willing to do that, but they're going to expect effort and commitment and energy and work from you in return. Just in different ways.

Cassie 30:42
And time... time is one of those things that isn't necessarily a different way. That is one place that I will say is more of an equalizer in the power dynamics is, slaves and submissives want your time. If they're doing all of this stuff for you, they want your time. They want to spend time with you. They want to be a part of your life, etc. And, you know,, it goes back again to, what are you offering with what you're expecting?

Josh 31:15
,So there's that piece. So I think we've covered that pretty thoroughly. And I want to talk about the last bit, which is this, you know, "Well, I can't find anybody. And so my relationship is a mess." And really, people there are always pretty much confusing the problem with the solution, right? People think what the problem is, is that they can't find anybody to date. That's why their relationship is on fire. Not understanding that if your relationship solid, sure, it might be nice to have somebody to date. But your relationship isn't going to suffer either way. And it's actually the opposite, which is when your relationship isn't stable, and especially is on fire, people don't want to date you. Your lack of prospective partners is the symptom, not the problem. And now, this is where I will add that I think the gender roles do do actually play in a bit.

Cassie 32:18
We can give a little bit on this. I think there is more cisgendered men in general who are willing to deal with a partner who has drama going on at home, then there are like cisgender women who are willing to deal with that. That I will I will give some.

Josh 32:37
Maybe even a bit. But yeah, I think there's probably some serious truth to that.

Cassie 32:41
I think that there is some truth to that. And I don't think that that is nearly the problem. I think that is where you can say, "I don't understand why my wife or my partner--why she's able to find people. And I'm not." But I don't think that's why she's able to find people. And I'm not. I think there's a difference between those two things.

Josh 33:03
Well, like I said, it's confusing the problem. And the solution, folks, here's the thing. And this gets back to what we were just talking about. Most people and I will say especially most women, non-monogamous women, do not want to be a part of drama, and a relationship that is suffering, right? They don't want to deal with it. They don't want to contribute to it and feel like they're wrecking somebody's home. And maybe this is what it is. I think that women have a better nose for that stuff. I think, like cisgender men, I definitely include myself in this, can be pretty oblivious to a lot of that stuff. But women tend to have a nose for the drama and relationship problems and also to feel bad about it if they're involved. And it isn't that you are having relationship problems, because you can't find a date. I can promise you that when your relationship is solid, you may want to have a partner, but you're not having what is not going to cause problems between you. That is not how anything works at all. Your relationship is dependent on you and your partner. But I can certainly say that if your relationship is a dumpster fire, you're gonna have a hard time finding people who want to have anything to do with that whatsoever. And you're gonna have a problem finding people to date.

Cassie 34:19
Absolutely. And I can even give some examples of how people see things and what it really breaks down to. Do you think that'd be helpful? So here's one. Me and my partner's relationship are on the rocks. And you know, what's going on is my husband now wants me to leave my boyfriend and it's because he can't find other partners. Well, let's really examine that. Is that because your partner is having challenges finding somebody right now? Or is that because your partner and you haven't had your connection? And now your partner is now seeing it with somebody else? Right?

Josh 34:58
Definitely option B. I have hundreds of these calls a year. It's definitely door number two.

Cassie 35:02
It's door number two, right? Or-- and I'm throwing these out as a couple of things. But these are the things that we see. "What's really causing problems with us is I'm dating and he's not. So we're fighting all the time." Well, what are you fighting about?

Josh 35:19
I want you to think about this for a minute. Why, just because your partner isn't dating, would that make you fight? Why? Just because your partner isn't dating, would that make your partner feel worried that they're going to be replaced, or like you two aren't connecting? None of those things. And I think people know that at the root. They have this hope that, "If I'm dating, then I'll be distracted from my jealousy and insecuirty and it'll feel better." But again, that isn't a solution.

Cassie 35:41
And the honest thing is a lot of folks think, "Well, if I get a partner, then that disconnection-- I'll be distracted from it. Or the fact that we don't communicate, and I feel like a roommate. That won't bother me as much." Here's the thing-- having another partner might make that feel better, for a little while. While you're in NRE, and you're wrapped up. But the relationship challenges that you have with your partner are still there. You still feel like a roommate. You're still unsatisfied and not really--

Josh 36:12
You're still worried about being replaced? Because their relationships better than yours, and you're watching them give them attention that you're not getting. It's silly, but the truth of the matter is, again, it's the other way around, right? And if you're having problems dating, you really need to take a hard look and say, "Is this a relationship that other people would want to be associated with?" They would want to-- because when people are dating you, they're tangentially in relation to the other people in your life. And they have no problem looking and going, "Okay, number one, do I want to be in a relationship with somebody who clearly doesn't know how to communicate? Or create stability? Or manage their emotions?" And then they can also look and go, "Do I really want to be a part of all this drama going on? Do I really want to contribute to these people who are already on the rocks, potentially breaking up?' And the answer to that for most people-- And again, especially most women-- is going to be NO. I think we found the one real gender difference in this discussion.

Cassie 37:08
Yes I think that there-- as I said, I think there is more cisgender men who are willing to tolerate or ignore-- I wouldn't even say tolerate-- ignore the drama. I think that is the outlier there. But aside for that, no.

Josh 37:23
So folks, listen, here's what I'd encourage you to do. If you're in a place where you're having trouble dating, you need to take a hard look at yourself. What's your mindset around dating? But probably the two bigger things: what is it that you're offering versus what you are asking? Is that realistic? Is it fair? Is it something that most healthy people would really, actually want? If you put the shoe on the other foot and that's what somebody was offering you versus asking of you, would you be willing to do it? What would you tell a friend who was considering getting into a relationship like that, or a loved one? And then again, maybe the single biggest thing: take a hard look at your relationship. And if you're finding that your relationship is struggling. It's unstable. It's on the rocks. It's full of jealousy and arguments and disconnection and drama. Rather than looking at and saying, "Oh, that's why if I found somebody to date it would fix this." Which you can take apart with two seconds of thought. Go, "Hmm, maybe people don't want to be involved in this kind of relationship," and fix your relationship. Not because it'll help you find people to date. It'll do that. But because that's the only way to actually fix things.

Cassie 38:36
And the benefit is, it is sexy to non-monogamous women to see that you're in a healthy, non-monogamous relationship. Wow, it is sexy to see-- it is sexy to see a man who is in a healthy, non-monogamous relationship. It is, period.

Josh 38:53
All right. Now, if you need help, creating a relationship like that, and healing your relationship, and you're ready to stop blaming it on the dating, go to atouchofflavor.com/talk. It's down there. Down there. It's down there. Go there. It'll take you to our calendar. Grab up a time. It'll take you to a little form, fill out the-- there's some information we need on there. Right. And then someone from our team, or one of us will call you at the time you selected. We'll talk you through: what are the challenges you are really facing? It is not the dating. What are the challenges that you're really facing in your relationship? How can you fix that? How can you get your relationship to a place where it's healthy? It's in line as something that people want to be in relation to. You're the kind of partner they would want to date, right? You're creating agreements that would actually work for them. And let's talk about not just how you can start finding other partners, but how you can actually solve the problems that are going on in your relationship in the first place and make sure that your family is solid and moving forward. So go ahead, atouchofflavor.com/talk, go there. Book a call. I look forward to chatting with you. And until then take care. And we will see you all here again next week.

Josh 40:13
Thanks for tuning into today's show. We release new episodes every week. So make sure to subscribe.

Cassie 40:19
If you're ready to transform your relationship and you'd like to see if you're a fit to work with us, here's what I want you to do next. Head over to atouchofflavor.com/talk and book an appointment to speak with our team. We'll get on the phone with you for about an hour. And we'll get you crystal clear on three things: what's really not working in your relationships, what your dream relationships would look like, and a step-by-step plan to close the gap and save your family, even if nothing has worked before.

Josh 40:46
We talk with hundreds of non-monogamous folks like you every year. And here's the truth: building loving, thriving relationships-- that doesn't happen on its own. You need expert guidance to make that happen. And unfortunately, when you are building relationships outside the box, that's impossible to find and we get it. But that's exactly what we do. We've helped clients all over the world, save their families, get the passion back, and become best friends again.

Cassie 41:11
So if you want to see if we can help you do the same head over to atouchofflavor.com/talk. I'm Cassie.

Cassie 41:18
And I'm Josh. Let's talk soon.