5 Surprising Facts About Group Relationships

Josh 0:00
All right, everybody. So today we are talking about five surprising facts about group relationships. So that is triads that is quads. That is more sums, but group relationships, five facts that you really should know. So stay tuned.

Cassie 0:14
Here at a Touch of Flavor, we teach non monogamous folks how to overcome their obstacles and build thriving relationships.

Josh 0:39
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Cassie 0:51
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Josh 1:01
All right, so Cassie, what are we talking about today?

Cassie 1:04
We're talking about group relationships and some really awesome, surprising facts about them.

Josh 1:10
Yeah, I'm happy to be talking about this. Because this is one place that I see so much misinformation gets spread around. And you know, it's a place that is kind of, like, near and dear is a little strong. Right. But I mean, not only we had, you know, some clients in group relationships, but I mean, we've been in group relationships to some extent or another a lot of the time that we've been together like, certainly not the whole time, but a third, half, probably a half at least?

Cassie 1:42
Yeah, something like that. Yes.

Josh 1:29
Right. And there's something that can be really, really awesome when they're done well. And yet, like I said, there's so much misinformation. So today, we just wanted to five facts, right, that you should know, that may contradict a lot of the stuff that's floating around out there. That'll be really helpful for you if you are thinking about or wanting one of these kinds of relationships. So like, stay tuned. All right. So what is the first fact Cassie?

Cassie 2:15
Well, it's that group relationships. They aren't wrong.

Josh 2:19
Yeah, so this is this is an interesting thing. And this gets thrown out a ton in the non monogamous community. And I feel like so and you pay more attention to the socials than I do.

Cassie 2:33
I do my best not to.

Josh 2:34
Well, I tried too. So let me ask right now, because the winds kind of change every now and again. So right now, is that group relationships are wrong. Is it specifically that like triads with like two women and one man are wrong? Or like, what is it right now?

Cassie 2:51
Well, I mean, it's kind of all okay. I mean, there's definitely a much bigger lens on like, unicorn hunting. And, you know, like a couple looking for a third, that is definitely more, gets people riled up bit more. But group relationships in general, get a bad rap. And folks say that the reason is, because people are trying to smush these relationships together and fit people in the boxes. And that's wrong.

Josh 3:28
So I want to start with, like so many things, right? This is there is some truth behind this, like, not behind it being wrong, like there can't really be truth behind that. But there is truth that a lot of times, relationships like this do look maybe unhealthy in some aspects, right. But that isn't, and this is where people seem to get confused. That isn't a function of the structure of a relationship. It's a function of the fact that a lot of people who are newer to non monogamy kind of default here, and we'll talk a little bit more about that and some of the problems with that later. But so because a lot of the people who are newer to non monogamy tend to default to this kind of arrangement. A lot of times there are things about those relationships that wind up looking unhealthy, but it isn't anything that's inherent in the structure, like it isn't like you can't have group relationships healthily, right. It's that people are going into it because they're new, a lot of times for the wrong reasons. Right? And so because of that, they wind up not being great situations for people to be in. But with that being said, I don't know like I just I find this whole. This is one of those places that I just find so hypocritical, because the whole reason that we're here and we're doing this like those of us right, is because we look at, like what society says is, this is the way that relationships should be done. And we go, No, you know what, like, it isn't. It's whatever we build that works for the people in it. But for whatever reason, like when you get to the group side of things, people take the completely opposite stance that they're trying to stand up against, and everything else.

Cassie 5:18
Well, it's, we're gonna be rebels and do something different. But you got to do it different. The way we say you're supposed to do different, but I mean, we're kind of joking, but they're...

Josh 5:29
But kind of not.

Cassie 5:30
But kind of not right. There's truth to that. And there's definitely challenges that come along, as you said, with people who do this, because it does appeal to people who are newer, it appeals to people who are looking to try to offset insecurities or things like that. And well, also it ends up blowing up the relationships, so they kind of get this bad rap. So you want to add anything to that?

Josh 6:02
Yeah, just that listen, you know, the truth of the matter is, and this is really, I think, the attitude that you need to take, if you're going to be successful in polyamory period, right, which is, there isn't a right way to build a relationship, there is what makes the people in that relationship, happy and healthy, and works for them. Right. And while there's certain things that do tend to work better, certain things that don't like at the end of the day, again, like, as long as the people in the relationship are happy and healthy with the arrangements, like those arrangements are fine, that goes to non monogamy that goes to like looking into like the kinky dimension and power exchange and how things fall in those places. Right. As long as the people in the relationship are happy and healthy with the relationship in the way it's structured and what they're getting from it. Right, it isn't wrong. The other piece that I'll say is that, you know, these relationships can be really, truly rewarding when you do them correctly. Right. And one, I think, one obvious reason for that, and I think something that attracts a lot of people to these kinds of relationships, when again, it isn't just like, oh, what were new, and this looks like the default is, it helps with a lot of the challenges that you run into with non monogamy around time. You want to talk about that for a minute.

Cassie 7:38
Yeah, I mean, that's one of the one of the reasons why I personally really, really enjoy group relationships is well, I like my people, I don't like to have to, like choose between the people, the persons that I want to spend time with. So if you have connection between those people, you can kind of double your time, right, because you're not being split, you get to now spend time and do activities with your partners, and they're enjoying it because they're also in relation, right. Whereas if I had two different partners who like, you know, weren't really like trying to be around each other, you know, not really trying to interact, I would have to split my time, right. So just out the gate, it adds to that. Also, it adds to, you know, like fun activities, whether that is like, mean, like, let's just be honest, like, you know, group group group, sexy time activities are fun, right. And also like being able to go and do things and support that comes around time. So getting things done. You know, that's one of the things that I really, really enjoy about group relationships.

Josh 8:51
Maybe being able to share a household like so these relationships can be really amazing when they're done well. But at the end of the day, you know, just kind of wrapping this first point off, right? Again, I just want you to understand it isn't wrong, like their relationships aren't wrong if they're happy and healthy for the people. And that really is the whole premise of what we're all doing here. Right. But there are some things that you do need to do to make sure that they are happy, and they are healthy. And we're going to cover that more as we go. But first piece, it isn't more wrong than any other kind of relationship. Right. And you know, something that can be really beautiful. So, second myth Cassie, I know you love talking about this.

Cassie 9:26
Yeah. "You can't find anybody who's going to be willing to do group relationships." And this is where, you know, the whole like, you're looking for a unicorn comes in, right? Like it's this idea that, you know, if you're looking for group relationships, you're absolutely not going to be able to find someone to do them. Or if you do, the only people you're going to find are like train wreck people, right people who are not like poly aware or, you know, emotionally mature, you know, those are the only people who are going to want to do group relationships. And that's just simply not true. There's lots of people who want to be in group relationships, who that appeals to them, whether it's the time factor, right, that we just talked about. But another reason is, there's lots of people who enjoy, you know, various types of relationships and being able to have those at the same time versus having to like split time away from them to have them. You know, this plays a lot into like orientation, right? I know, you know, one of our, like, play partners was like, who actually is now, like, moved in and living with a couple...

Cassie 10:48
Was a partner at one point.

Cassie 10:49
Was a partner at one point, is like been, you know, for the last year, she like, moved in. And, you know, she's like, that's what I've been looking for, you know, I like the dynamic of being able to be with two people that I really enjoy being with. I'm, you know, bisexual, I like being able to be with, you know, different genders. And that dynamic really feeds me like, I really enjoy that. So there's lots of people who want that dynamic, or it appeals to them.

Josh 11:21
Yeah, this is I don't know, this is always just a funny to me when I hear it, because I just I have I found that to be so untrue. Right? I mean, I know, you know, so first off, I mean, I know plenty of people who we've never dated, who are like, specifically, like group relationships and look for them. Right? I know, I have our own personal experience of, you know, everything from like, super experienced poly people to like, people we just like met hanging out, like in vanilla settings, who like wound up, you know, like, wanting to date. And, and also, you know, I see in our clients and all the people we talked to, that, you know, this desire to be in a group relationship is, it isn't one sided like this is something that plenty of people are interested in. Right? Now, I think it might be worth talking. So so there are plenty of people out there who are interested in this kind of dynamic, I think it might be good to talk for a minute about why people can have such a hard time finding folks.

Cassie 12:27
So the first thing is, and I'm not trying to say this to be like harsh, but it's probably you. A lot of times it is like the folks who are looking for group dynamics. This is kind of a, when you have a lot of quantity, you get to pick quality, right? So there is a lot of folks who are looking for, you know, dragons or unicorns or however you want to, you know, describe it, I love quads, and are looking for those people to be incoming partners, right? And those people recognize there's a lot of people who want that dynamic. I get to be choosy about that. So if you're having challenges around that, you need to look at like, what are you presenting? What are you actually offering to that particular dynamic?

Josh 13:31
And there's two, there's two main places I see people get caught up here. One is that and this goes back to what we were talking about before, right, which is on the front of what they're offering. They're offering something that people don't want, right? I'll give a really easy example. There's something that we see really commonly. So okay, so we want to have a third, we want this to be like a sexually exclusive relationship. We don't want you to be sleeping with, dating anybody else but us. But listen, we really-- we have kids, we're busy, we can really only give you like two nights a week.

Cassie 14:03
Oh, yeah. I don't want anybody to know about this relationship, either.

Josh 14:06
Well, I mean, that's, that's another thing. There's 100 factors, but at the end of the day, if what you're offering isn't something that people are going to be interested in, right? If you are, you know, I always I always like talking to people. And we're talking to our clients about being super aware of what you're offering and what you're asking in return, if what you're asking is way out of proportion of what you're offering. Right, for most people that isn't going to work. So that's one place that I think a huge place that people and especially people who are maybe newer to the group side of things, push partners away or at least push experienced potential partners away who know what to look for. Right. So that's one piece. Go ahead.

Cassie 14:52
And the other thing that I was going to go ahead and you go first.

Josh 14:55
I was switching topics. So do you have anything else?

Cassie 14:58
Yeah, and the other sort of thing that I think a lot of folks who are looking for group relationships fail to recognize is, you being a couple is not typically, like it can be a benefit for someone who's looking for that. But that is not a sole benefit, you have to have more than just being a couple, you have to have redeeming qualities and reasons for someone to want to be with you. Right? Like, because as a couple, you are bringing things right, you're bringing your history and your relationship and things like that, you have to have something more than we're together to the table.

Josh 15:41
And we're pretty cool.

Cassie 15:43
Like, there has to be something that you are bringing to the table that makes you appeal.

Josh 15:49
The second piece, though, I think, that people miss a lot of times is that most people or at least most people that you would want to be a partner with. Don't want to walk into a situation that is already shaky. You have you know, when you are talking to people, and you're looking for people, right? And these people are looking, and they're evaluating, what does your relationship look like? And if your relationships a train wreck, most people aren't going to want to be a part of that. And the people who do want to be a part of that. It's not usually good. Let's put it that way. Right? You know, a lot of the people that I see you go into that kinds of situations of like, Oh, this looks like a train wreck, I really want to hop into this, like, I really want to hop into this, because I'm hoping they'll break up and I'll wind up with this person. Right. And I'm not saying there's a lot of those people out there, there aren't. But the point that I'm making is that most people that you would actually want to date in this kind of situation, they don't want to walk into a relationship, it's already shaky, where people are arguing they're fighting, they're disconnected. There's already jealousy, where I mean, especially if there's a relationship that's on the verge of that's like shaky and might not last, you know, people, again, people who you'd want to date, they don't want to be the cause for you breaking up, they don't want to add fuel to that fire. So if your relationship is shaky, that's another reason that you're gonna have a really hard time finding people, like people don't want to walk into somebody else's train wreck.

Cassie 17:34
Yeah, and, as you said, those who do, even if they're not that extreme case that you were just talking about. They're folks who, like, you know, they're attracted to drama, they're attracted to being the fixer, right. So that's, that's something that you're gonna want, either, right. So you want to make sure that your relationship is appealing. As I said, there has to be like redeeming qualities and good things about your relationship for you to find other folks.

Josh 18:05
And this is one of the things I'll just throw in there. And it doesn't, it's not really a part of this, finding people. But also just understand like that if you are bringing somebody into a situation that's already full of like drama, and stress and hurt and arguments, you're dragging this other person down along with you now, right. So it's just something else to keep in mind. Like, I think we're going to maybe talk a little bit more about that later. But the third thing, that the third fact that like, you need to know, if you're looking at group relationships, and this takes a lot of people a long time to understand is it doesn't matter if you're doing group relationships, it doesn't matter if you were have a more open kind of situation, your relationships will never be equal. And that goes just as it goes in both directions. And it goes just as strongly in a group environment. So this covers a few things, where do you want to start with us?

Cassie 19:05
Um, I always like to start with just relationships are not equal, like relationships. Relationships are and this is the great thing like we get into non monogamy because we want different relationships, right? So every relationship is unique. Every relationship has its own chemistry, connection, challenges, right? Like the the challenge that me and Josh have is not the same that Josh and Amanda has right? Those those challenges look different, the connection is different, all the way down to like this sexual and romantic aspects are going to be different because you have different people, relationships are never going to be the same.

Josh 19:55
And that means even in a group dynamic, even in a try, I will take the most obvious case of people think about it If they're not going to be equal, you're gonna have two people are more attracted to each other. In that situation, you're gonna have two people who are more sexually compatible, you're going to have two people who more enjoy spending time with each other.

Cassie 20:12
Or certain activities.

Josh 20:12
Or certain activities, like, you just, you know. So if you go into a relationship, and this is one place, you know, talking about people are going in, and they're expecting this to be like the easy route into non monogamy, right? They're never equal, and you have to be willing to deal with that scenario, you know, of having a partner, who it turns out is more attracted to your significant other than to you, is a problem, this isn't going to be a good fit for you, you have to be okay with the fact that these are relationships. And when you're in, you know, even a triad, right, you've got four relations to that point, you know, so just using Amanda as an example, you've got mine and Cassie's relationship, you got my relationship with Amanda, Cassie's relationship with Amanda and all of our relationships as a group, and all those things, you know, there's different interactions and all of those situations, and they will never be equal, like if you feel the need to be, you know, equally attracted to, equally sexual with, equally people wanting to spend time together, equally enjoying the same activities, you are going to be really unhappy in this kind of relationship, you have to be able to be okay with that.

Cassie 21:31
And that's not to say that there can't be a lot of overlap, but a lot of things that you enjoy all together or very similar, very similar, not equal, right. But it's not going to be exactly the same. It's just not possible. And it takes, and this is where you're saying folks like kind of slipping into this, oh, well, if I'm there, for every moment, it's going to be easier? Well, it's not, right. So you have to be willing, and accepting that those relationships are going to have different dynamics that they're going to look different. And that's just a fact of it, like, and the longer that. And I would even say the longer that you're in those relationships, the more you find those differences, not in a negative way, in a positive way you find the hobbies, the interests, the compatibilities, that sit even more with the different dyads in the relationship.

Josh 22:29
And this is-- I'm not gonna go too far down this road. But I know this is also a bit of a controversial topic, which is actually not, has nothing to do with why I'm not gonna go too far down this road, I just don't wanna get off track. The other aspect of things not being equal, is the buy-in into a relationship also isn't equal. Right? This is this is one of those things that comes out of that concept of equality. And is also I know is you you've been talking about it is like a super popular thing in the polyamory space right now, which is, well, if you're going to do that kind of relationship, the only way for it to be healthy is for everybody to be exactly equal. Like that's horseshit. Right? It's horseshit not just on the part we were just talking about on a practical end of things, and one place that, you know, people can really cause a lot of problems is by trying to treat a two month relationship, the same as a 10 year relationship. It isn't, like the fact that you're and the thing that kind of blows my mind is we all get this in the monogamous world, right? If you're dating somebody for two months, you're not going to be most of us aren't gonna be talking about marrying them, most of us aren't gonna be talking about having kids with them. Right? You're not going to be letting them dictate where you're moving, or where your kids are going to school.

Cassie 23:44
Or big job decisions.

Josh 23:45
Or big job decisions. But yet, when we get for some reason, when people get into group dynamics, they completely forget that they know this stuff. And they start trying to treat a relationship that's been here, like I said, two months, the same as a relationship that's been here. 10 years.

Cassie 24:06
Yeah. And this goes, like not only for like, the pre existing couple, this goes the other way. Like, oh, you know, we've only been with you for, you know, two months, let us, you know, tell you how to raise your kids or, Oh, you've only been with us for two months. Now. You're now you're picking where we're moving. Right? It turns into this idea of trying to make things equal. And that's where we talk a lot about the difference between equal and fairness, right? Like you want your relationships to have a layer of fairness and a place where people are healthy and happy and have like their relationship rights preserved. But when you try to do this equality thing, especially when there is not as much sweat equity and relationships, not as much time there ends up being a lot more challenges there ends up being a situations where people make really big decisions that they shouldn't have been a part of, or having influence on really big decisions that they shouldn't have had that influence in.

Josh 25:10
Yeah. So that's that piece. So it will not be. That's the third fact. The fourth fact is, man, I don't know which of these two, I want to be the fourth factor, because like, I think they're so entwined. I feel like I'm having a hard time deciding which one should go first. Which one do want to do first? Yeah, okay. The fact you need to know is this is poly 301, 401, 501. Right?

Cassie 25:39
It is not 101.

Josh 25:40
it is not one on one, we mentioned this before. A lot of people, they come into these kinds of relationships, because they're moving into non monogamy. And this seems like the easiest route. Well, you know, if, if we do this, then my partner, they're not going to be spending time away from me. And I'll get to see and monitor everything that goes on. And I'll get to be a part of all the decisions. And I'll get to be having all the same experiences. And if I do that, I'm not going to feel jealous. And you know, it's not going to shake up this relationship. So we're going to be safe.

Cassie 26:26
Yeah, it's this idea that it's, I was gonna say the word safe, right? It's going to be safe. I don't have to worry about, like the trust, right? Like, because I'm going to be there, I'm going to see it, I'm going to be around it. And what actually happens is the complete opposite of what folks think is going to happen. Because here's the thing. You're right there like, polyamory non monogamy shines a light on like, issues in your relationship. When you're when you're dating separately, right? You see, oh, you know, you're excited to go out on dates, you're doing this. And that's hard. When you're in a group relationship, and it's in the same room. It's even harder, you see your partner holding hands with somebody when they haven't been holding your hands with you for a long time, oof that burns, or you get to see the interactions between these two people. And it's a lot harder to deal with.

Josh 27:26
Yeah. Listen, the time division with a group relationship is easier in some ways. Everything else is harder. Right? It's just, it's just the truth, right? Being in a situation where you're having look, even lots of people who are really non monogamous. I'll take this something else here. Because this is kind of the same idea that pervades this thing of like, well, if I read all my partners text messages, then I'll feel more secure, because I'll know nothing's happening behind my back. Well, number one, no, you won't, because you know, if they know you're reading their text messages, and they want to do something behind your back, we're just going to do it another way. Right. So but the second piece is, you know, the truth of the matter is, for most people, reading your partner's like messages and sex with somebody else is going to make you uncomfortable, it doesn't matter how poly you are, I don't want to read that shit. Right? Like, I don't want to read that shit. I don't want to be in a room when Cassie is screwing some of her partners, like, I don't, right? And that's true for most people is that like, you know, it's one thing, like you said to know something's happening, it's another thing to watch it happen. And so being in a situation where you're talking about a group dynamic, where you're talking about seeing your partner, love on someone seeing them do it on someone seeing that NRE every day, seeing their sexual chemistry, seeing how much your partner wants to that sex versus maybe the way they do that with you, right, where you're seeing all that is incredibly difficult. And then you have to add to that, again, that there's going to be any quality, you're going to have to deal with that you're going to have to deal with the fact that this relationship isn't going to be equal. And you're going to be in a relationship with two people who in some ways are going to connect better than you're connecting with either of them. Right? And then you have to find a balance because most people when they're talking about group relationships, the eventual goal and sometimes the immediate thing that they're doing, which is a whole other discussion is moving in together or raising kids together, or all these things. And that's just really freakin complicated. Right? Go ahead.

Cassie 29:39
,And the other thing is, is that by being in a group, there's even more challenges around things like communication the challenge there. When you have two people and you're opening your relationship. It is complicated. You have to grow a new skill set. And when I'm talking to like our clients, and I'm talking about, like, you have to grow into the skill sets of being able to negotiate, and communicate well, to be able to just do polyamory, there is an entire next step of communication skills, and the ability to navigate those conversations when you're talking about multiple people being a part of them. So it just adds this, this layer of needing more skills, having to navigate things at a much higher, higher level.

Josh 30:35
So you know, and this is what I tell people all the time, right, this is, this is not poly 101, like, honestly, you know, if I was talking to people, most people I would really recommend, I mean, and at the end of the day, you want, what you want, but all other things being equal. Right? You know, I would recommend that this is not where people start, because this is so much harder in what you're having to see in the communication, in managing just the negotiations. I mean, it kind of goes back to what I was saying before, which is, you know, if I have a partner, right, and, you know, if Cassie has a partner, and I have a partner, and Cassie has a partner, we've got three separate relationships, if we're in a group, we've automatically got four, because now we're not only having to navigate all of that we're having to navigate the group dynamic as well. We're having to try not to triangulate not have people go venting to, you know, this partner trying to get them to fix the problems that we're having. Like, there's just a whole level and you're throwing on top of it. Like I said, this, this problem of things not being equal of trying to balance the growth of the relationship where people are getting what they need. But it also isn't like, there's just so many pieces. This is poly 301. And it is I'm not saying don't do it if it's something that you want. But you need to understand the truth of it, which is, you know, first off, especially with this being something that a lot of people who are new to polyamory do like I need you to understand, I would say, 8 out of 10, people who are going into polyamory, that's something that they try and do it on their own, they don't have help, they don't have support for this enormous transition with the way they've done their relationships their whole life. And they're already in an established relationship, they're trying to change it, they blow that up, you now try and add the group dynamics on top of that, it is incredibly difficult. And so it's super important to go into this knowing that, number one, it's probably not something you're going to get through on your own. Number two, it is way harder, even than just opening up period, which is still something you're probably not going to get through on your own if you're in an established relationship and have been there for a long time. Anything else there?

Cassie 32:55
No, I think we covered that pretty well.

Josh 32:57
Alright, and what's the last piece that really ties it in that we were really trying to decide what

Cassie 33:01
The last one is, it's not going to fix your relationships. So if you're already in a relationship, so you're a couple or you know, you're looking for another partner, or you're looking for another couple, looking for others and adding others into your relationship is not going to fill the gaps that are missing in the relationship that you have. And a lot of folks do this. So it's like, me and my-- me and my husband, we, our sex life sucks. So we're going to find somebody else to bring in and make that better. Or our communication is really, really bad, we want someone to come in and balance us out. And if you do that, your relationship is going to implode, like just period.

Josh 33:51
We see this all the time. And I see it a lot. I see it a lot around sex, I see a lot around just connection like, Well, I haven't been feeling loved in this relation for a long time. But you know, everything else is pretty good. Like we co parent, well, we run a good household. You know, so if we just brought in someone that then I have that connection with someone, well, then that's gonna fix it. And it's not, right. And there's a lot of factors you need to consider when you're thinking about this. The first piece that you need to understand and this is something most people don't get is that the needs that I have as a human are separate from the needs that I have in a relationship. Easy example. I'll take this to kink because that works really well for me, right? I like to top. I would argue that I need to top, right occasionally, to be happy and healthy. And you know if that's just something I need in life in general, that's cool. I don't get that from Cassie. I'm never going to get that from Cassie. I can go have another partner who I can do that with. On the other hand, if that was something that I needed in each relationship, then there would be a problem. And most people, this is what they skip is the realization that for most people, like, if I'm feeling insecure, or disconnected, or unloved, or any of those basic needs, those are generally things that I can't get from another relation that's not going to fix what's going on here. And in fact, what it's going to do, and you were talking about this earlier, is is going to cast the light on the problems that were here.

Cassie 35:32
Yeah. And so, by doing that, you end up creating more challenges in your relationship. So the challenges that you already had now are really in your face, they are highlighted, and you're having to navigate those things at even more than you were.

Josh 35:51
Yeah, folks, this is the single biggest thing about polyamory that's challenging, right, is that having multiple relationships shines this enormous, like spotlight on any areas that are existing relationships are already weak, maybe places we could even ignore, if that wasn't there. And that is the single biggest challenge. And when you're in a group relationship, that is only even worse, because now that difference, you know, maybe, let's say that, you know, like, your biggest challenge in your relationship is that you've been feeling unloved. Okay, well, your partner has another partner. Now you have to hear about how much they're feeling loved from this other person, or how much they love this other person, right? Well, you're in a group relationship. Now you have to see it, maybe every day, and you're still feeling unloved. And that feels really shitty.

Cassie 36:46
Yeah. And the thing is, is that you end up having situations where you now have built resentment. So you started off with this place of like feeling unloved, now you have resentment towards this other person. Now, you're adding in other challenges of maybe arguments and friction and all kinds of other things. So it won't fix those challenges, you and your partner actually have to work to fix the challenges that you have in your relationship that you need from that and get the needs that you have for that particular relationship. So if it's, I am needing to feel appreciated, I'm needing to feel loved, I'm needing a better, you know, intimacy, connection, whatever it is, you have to fix that in your relationship.

Josh 37:35
And I just want to, I want to put in the space that I want you to remember as well, that when you're bringing somebody into that kind of situation, number one, you are negatively impacting them. Number two, you're in a situation where you're probably not attracting the kind of people you want to attract. And at the end of the day, just being in a spot where like you're in a house, where like it's upset, like people don't wanna be around each other. And like, I don't want to talk to this partner because of the conversation they were having with this person over here. And now I'm feeling bad about this, like they're ganging up on me, like, it's just, it's a really crappy place to be, right? Ideally, you want to get your relationship square before moving into this kind of relationship. It's not always the case, some people don't figure that out till after. And, you know, we've had clients who've come to us who have started the group thing and with problems, and now they're trying to fix it all. And that's, I mean, you can do that if you have to, if it isn't too late, but it's definitely harder, right? So the ideal place to do this is to get what's going on between you two fixed, and then when you're in a place where it's going to be healthy and happy, you're going to be able to do a better job attracting the kind of people that you want. And it's not just gambling, like, you're going to be in a much better spot to start this kind of relationship. What else?

Cassie 39:02
Um, I mean, I think that, you know, the reason that folks end up in these positions where, you know, they have these relationships that end up feeling really unbalanced, not unequal, but like very unbalanced and unhappy and unfulfilling in group dynamics is because they went out looking to fill those gaps or looking to fix problems, versus creating a new relationship that is starting off on good footing. If you're bringing your baggage to a relationship to a new relationship with someone else. You're starting that relationship off on the wrong foot. So it's about starting the relationships that you have in a good place.

Josh 39:49
Yeah. So Alright, so let's just kind of sum up right, number one, it is not wrong to want to be in a group dynamic group dynamics can be beautiful, number for two, you can absolutely find people. Like I don't even understand where that myth comes from, there are plenty of people out there who are interested in group relationships. Number three, it is never equal.

Cassie 40:11
Never, never.

Josh 40:11
Never, never, never equal. Number four, this is poly 301. Number five, it will not fix your relationship. And quite honestly, if your relationship is Rocky, having this kind of relationship is going to do the exact opposite. It's going to drag it down, right? So but here's the thing, like I said, these relationships can be beautiful. And if you're in a spot where like, hey, like, I want this, and you know, either I, you know, our relationships in a good spot, but I'm realizing how hard opening up and building this kind of dynamic, how crazy difficult and complicated that's going to be when I've never done it before. Or you're like, hey, like, I want this kind of relationship. But I realized I need to fix mine first. Or even if you're already in the situation where you're in this kind of relationship, and you're realizing holy crap, we did this for the wrong reasons and this is going really poorly. And we need help. Whatever the case, those aren't, again, situations that you're going to navigate through on your own. Right, you know, reach out, we're happy to help, you can go to atouchofflavor.com/talk. Go ahead, like you'll see a calendar, grab up a time, it'll take you to a you know, a little form, fill it out, give us some background. And then you know, we'll get on the phone with you for about 45 minutes, an hour, closer to an hour, right and really dive in and talk about what's going on because we deal with these kinds of dynamics and these kinds of relationships, and the challenges and the communication and everything that comes from that every single day. So like I said, atouchofflavor.com/talk and we will help with that. Everybody have a fantastic week and we will see you all here very soon.

Josh 41:53
Thanks for tuning into today's show, we release new episodes every week, so make sure to subscribe

Cassie 41:59
If you're ready to transform your relationship and you'd like to see if you're a fit to work with us, here's what I want you to do next, head over to atouchofflavor.com/talk and book an appointment to speak with our team. We'll get on the phone with you for about an hour. And we'll get you crystal clear on three things. What's really not working in your relationships, what your dream relationships would look like and a step by step plan to close the gap and save your family even if nothing has worked before.

Josh 42:27
We talk with hundreds of non monogamous folks like you every year. And here's the truth, building loving, thriving relationships that doesn't happen on its own. You need expert guidance to make that happen. And unfortunately, when you are building relationships outside the box, that's impossible to find and we get it but that's exactly what we do. We've helped clients all over the world, save their families get the passion back and become best friends again. So

Cassie 42:51
So if you want to see if we can help you do the same head over to atouchofflavor.com/talk. I'm Cassie.

Josh 42:59
And I'm Josh. Let's talk soon.