4 Toxic Coping Mechanisms In Polyamory

Cassie 0:00
All right, today we're gonna be talking about the toxic coping mechanisms that are damaging your non monogamous relationships.

Josh 0:09
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Cassie 0:30
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Josh 0:36
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Josh 0:59
Alright, folks, today we're going to talk about coping mechanisms, or maybe you call them defense mechanisms, right? And so what are we really talking about? When we're in our relationships, and we have things that aren't going well, you know, we're arguing, we feel insecure, we're feeling disconnected. Stuffs falling apart around us. We have to find a way to get through the day, right, we have to find some ways to protect ourselves and to function and to cope with what it is that's going on in those moments.

Josh 1:30
And anytime you're talking about coping mechanisms, ways we deal with negative emotions with bad things that are going on in our lives and our relationships, they fall into three categories, right? So you have coping mechanisms that are first off are positive, this might be putting your energy into doing better at work or exercise or something like that. Right? Then you have mechanisms that are neutral. And these are things that and usually they're neutral, but they're only neutral in a certain amount. So this is maybe like, you know, you're upset, and you're stressed, and you and your partner just spent the day yelling at each other and you go and you binge your favorite Netflix show, it's not really helping anything, it's not really hurting anything either, unless you start doing it too much, right. And then you have mechanisms that are negative. And these are negative in that they're, number one toxic to you, and your well being. But number two that are also destructive to your relationships. Right. And this is what winds up happening so often, is we see people and they're already struggling in their relationships, they're fighting, they're unhappy, they're suffering through jealousy, they've got all these things going on. But then, on top of that, they stack these negative coping mechanisms. And they just make things worse. And there's a few of them that we see pop up really regularly, I think four of them that we're going to talk about today. So we wanted to break those down for you as to what those toxic coping mechanisms are and what you can do about them and how you can avoid them in your polyamorous relationships. You have anything you want to add to that before we went into the different things?

Cassie 3:17
No, just as you said, you know, the neutral things tend to be the things that we can only do for so long. So some of these things that you're hearing us say at first, you might be like, Oh, especially the first one that we're going to go over, you're gonna be like, Oh, well, some of that's not too bad. And with it being something that's very, very, something that you're not doing all the time, something that's an occasional thing, but when it starts to be something that you're doing often in your relationships, it can be really, really damaging. So, want to hop into the first one?

Josh 3:49
You want me to cover it?

Cassie 3:50
Yeah.

Josh 3:52
So the first one is what I think most people think of when they think of negative coping mechanisms, and that is escape, right? And escape, like I said, escape a lot of times are things that they're they're those things that done in small doses aren't bad, necessarily, but done in larger doses, they can become really negative to us. And these are mainly ways that you can disconnect and get your mind out of the loop so you can get yourself out of the hurtful space that you're currently living and what's going on in your relationships by focusing on something else kind of drowning it out. Right? So this can be anything from losing yourself in video games to laying in bed not getting up because the world's too difficult to throwing yourself into work, and maybe you're doing it too much, to now where you're overworked and burnt out and you're not home, right? This can also be things like more people tend to think of toxic coping mechanisms which is like falling into alcohol, falling into drugs, that kind of thing. These are all versions of escape, of trying to escape the reality of what's currently going on the hurt that's currently going on in your relationships and escaping somewhere else. I think this is what most people, Cassie, think of when they think of coping mechanisms is this first one. Which is, I know why we wanted to talk about it first.

Cassie 5:26
Yeah. And and many times it's escapism tends to be the more extreme ones, right, like the drugs, the alcohol, and we see this happen when folks are struggling in their relationships where they start turning to these vices, as a way to deal with what's going on. And while there are some of these big ones, there's also things like sitting and spending time thinking about being in a different life, daydreaming or zoning out and not getting things done or getting. So using a hobby to escape where like, Okay, I'm working out eight days a week, right? And yes, I know, there's not actually 8 days, that's the point. Where you're spending all this time and doing all this just to get away from the problems. And the issue there is you're not actually facing what's going on, regardless of how you're doing it, you're not facing the reality of the the situations that are going on around you.

Josh 6:26
Well, there's a couple problems with escaping, right. The first is that all of these things, while they're, most of them are neutral, in moderation. Anything that's okay, in moderation tends to become bad in excess. Right. So you know, first off, when you're going through these things, and you're indulging these escapes to excess, you know, there is is a really serious personal toll that winds up hitting like if you're in a spot where you are working to the point that you're burned out where you are, you know, drinking till you're blackout drunk every night, right, where you're falling back into habits that maybe you had left behind you a long time ago. Obviously, that carries a big, personal toll, right. And even just being in a spot where you're spending all day not being able to get out of bed, or you're getting out of bed, and then you're just losing eight hours, like surfing the web, or zoning out the TV, because that's the only way you can get out of like the cycles and the worry and the doubts that you're in, in your head about your relationship. Right, that takes up, That's just- it's a huge waste of time. Right. And that winds up having a big negative personal toll.

Josh 7:48
But the second piece that you kind of mentioned, Cassie, is that even these escapes, they also wind up taking a toll on your relationship number one, because you're not dealing with the problems, if you're just escaping from the problems, you're not actually dealing with the problems in the relationship. But secondly, because a lot of times those escapes, become their own pieces that are having a negative impact on the relationship. So if you're falling into alcoholism, for example, that's going to take a toll on your relationship. If you can't get out of bed and you're not doing anything around the house, you're not helping out with the kids, you're not helping out with the chores, that's going to take a toll on your relationships. Even if you're just in a spot where when you're sitting in the same room with your partner, during some of like time that you do have that could be good. And you're zoned out in your phone because you don't want to be there. And now you're miles apart. Even though you're sitting in the same room, that's going to take a toll on the relationship. So that's how escape can have a hit not just on you, personally, when these things get to be too much. But on your relationship as a whole.

Cassie 8:56
Yeah, and one of the ways folks escape also, when it comes to non monogamy is using other relationships to escape the the issues and problems that are going on here. So it's like oh, well, this this new shiny, this newer relationship, this other relationship is easier. It's not got the problem. So now I'm spending time only focused on that relationship or giving all my time to that relationship, which, as you said, there's there's issues that get caused by the the actions that you take when you're trying to escape. So of course, if you had issues in your relationship where you weren't getting along, and there was jealousy, you start spending all your time away and not giving time to your relationship that's going to brew more jealousy. And while having many relationships is a great part of non monogamy. Using a relationship to avoid another one just causes a lot more issues.

Josh 9:55
Yeah, so that's that, and I know we'd want to hit that first because that's the one that most people think have kind of off hand. So we wanted to get that out of the way. Do you have anything else you want to throw in there before we move on? No, I think that's good. All right. What's number two, Cassie?

Cassie 10:10
So the next one is deflection. And I think it's important to recognize why people do this. And it's because-

Josh 10:20
Can we talk about what it is? Can we talk about why people do it?

Cassie 10:23
Yes.

Josh 10:24
Okay.

Cassie 10:25
Well, I was gonna use why we do it to talk about it.

Josh 10:27
Okay, cool.

Cassie 10:29
So the reason why people use deflection is to take things off themselves, and kind of move it or change the target of the situation so that they're not having to deal with it being about them. And so really, what it is, is, it's when you're in situations, and rather than dealing with either the problem at hand, or someone bringing something up to you, it's changing the subject or moving the target in the conversation. And this can look like you know, let's say, Josh comes to me, and he says, hey, you know, you've missed three date nights in the last two weeks. And then I'm like, well, actually, it hasn't been two, three date nights. We don't have three date nights this week. You know, that was last week. You never get the calendar, right. Oh, yeah. By the way, you messed up the calendar last week, anyway, you were the one who did the thing, right? So it's kind of like taking the issue and finding an out for it. A lot of times, we'll see folks do things like, Well, I did this thing, but you did X, Y and Z. Right. So it switches it up and changes the course of the of the conversation.

Josh 11:47
And so one thing I want to, I want to throw in here is that all these things, number one, these are things that we all do, right, but again, it's how much we're doing it. And number two, most of these are unconscious, I'd say this is maybe the most conscious one out of the four. But most of these are unconscious. So this doesn't necessarily mean that you're doing it intentionally. But the other thing that I wanted to add is because you know, your example that you gave, it was still pretty on target with the conversation, right? Like you're like, Well, you, you know, you miss date nights. Well, it's not really date nights, and you screw up the calendar. But sometimes it's it's much more off base, separate than that, right? Sometimes it might be well, you screwed up date night, three times? Oh, yeah. Well, guess what, you never apologized for cheating on me two years ago, and just move the ball completely into another court. Right. And, you know, with deflection, you know, this is something like I said people do unconsciously but also consciously, depending. And it causes a lot of challenges in people's relationships.

Cassie 12:49
Well, and although folks do it consciously, a lot of folks do it unconsciously. And I want to put that in the space because we learn as humans to find ways to not feel like we're to blame. So it's easy to be like, Well, it's actually not my fault. What is the other reason why it might not be mine? And we're not necessarily thinking about that, right? We're thinking about, that's just how we react. How do I find out? And when we do that we really invalidate our partners, like issues or problems or things that they're bringing to us. We skip over what's important to the other people in our lives. And a big toll that it takes on our partners is them feeling not cared for, not loved, and also not heard. It causes a lot of usually resentment from your partner feeling like what they bring to you is never valid or important.

Josh 13:47
Well, there's there's a couple of things, right. I mean, first and foremost, you're in a place where, like you said, when when deflection is the game, your partner, by definition never feels heard. Right? Because they're never, I mean, they never are heard. Right, that the topic that they're bringing to you the problems that they're bringing to you are never actually being addressed. And obviously that creates a situation where it pushes them further away. But beyond the feeling unheard, when stuff is being deflected, the challenge, that's there is that you're never actually addressing any of these issues. So let's go back to this date night. As an example. Here's what's happened in this discussion I came to Cassie and said hey, you know, our date nights are being messed up. You know what we're now not talking about five sentences later. We're not talking about date nights. So what happens with this is people want in a situation not only do I feel unheard, and like what I want, and need doesn't matter, and does that build resentment, but the other thing that happens, is I wind up in a place where I will not just me, this issue winds up in a place where it isn't actually resolved. Right? So we have these conversations, we talk in circles, neither of us probably gets anywhere because we keep kicking the ball around on what we're working on. And then the issue of the date nights never actually gotten resolved. So what happens two weeks down the road? Date night got messed up again. And now I'm pissed off about it. Now I'm having the same discussion, again. And this is how people wind up in a place where they're having the same discussion over and over and over again, for weeks, months, years, and feeling like they're never making any progress.

Cassie 15:51
Yeah. And when this happens, then that's where we start moving into places of feeling hopeless in our relationship. And that's when we start detaching from each other, right? It ends up causing this whole cycle of our relationship feeling like it's not moving forward. And as Josh said, you end up kind of moving back around and around and around to the same thing, because you're not actually having the argument or the discussion about the thing. You're having an about the other things around that conversation.

Josh 16:26
Yeah, it's like you started off arguing about the date nights, and you started arguing about what happened, cheating two years ago. Now you're argueing about the argument. Now everything's going downhill, and people are getting nasty and calling names. And that's how stuff tends to go. And it turns into mudslinging for the most part. All right, so anything you want to throw in there before talking about what people should be doing.

Cassie 16:47
Um, no, I think we covered it pretty well.

Josh 16:49
Okay. So and take a step back for just a minute, because I realized we didn't remember to talk about what people should be doing with the escape. And that's an interesting question, actually. Right. And I think it's a little harder to find than some of these other things. But I think at the end of the day, what you have to look at with that coping mechanism escape is to realize that when you're escaping, you're not actually solving the problem, you're more or less kind of kicking the can down the road. So this is really what you're doing. Right, what you're doing in escape, is you're kind of kicking the can of the problem down the road, because you're not actually dealing with it, you're not actually dealing with the things with the the reality of what's going on. With the arguing, with the disconnection, with the fact that you haven't had sex, you know, in six months or whatever. But you're kicking it down the road, you're not really getting a huge benefit. Because those problems are still there, you're still feeling jealous, your partner still breaking down and crying themselves to sleep. So what you're really doing is you have like, this much discomfort. And it would take maybe this much discomfort to actually fix things. And instead of doing that, you just and being at this level of discomfort for you know, a couple months or whatever it takes to fix things, you just stay here for years. So really, at the end of the day, I guess as far as escape, what people need to look at, is to really have an understanding that in order for things to get better, you're going to have to break out of the status quo get a little more uncomfortable, and put the time and the effort and the energy into fixing things rather than into sitting back and kind of trying to ignore the fact that they're falling apart. What do you think?

Cassie 18:47
Yeah, it's the dealing with the more discomfort now for the result of what you really want in the future.

Josh 18:56
And folks, you know, we say this all the time, it's impossible to heal the relationship without being willing to rock the boat, and to stop ignoring the things that you are settling for, and that your partner is settling for, you know, whether that's unhappiness, whether that's going through feeling like you're not really living your life, whether that is the example that you're setting for your kids. It's, it's the first and foremost step is to stop settling, and to be willing to get a little uncomfortable and put in the work to turn things around. So that would be for escape.

Josh 19:28
For deflection, you want to start with that, or you want me to as far as what people should do?

Cassie 19:38
You can go ahead and start.

Josh 19:40
So there's a couple things here. But I think the biggest thing that people need to learn, you know, when we're talking with our clients, we have a couple of overarching principles that we teach clients. When we're teaching them how to have thriving relationships. And one of those principles is we talk about, I just used principle twice in a sentence, we talk about principle versus progress. And it's this idea that you can, when you're in a conversation in your relationship, you can generally either be right... Or you can move the relationship forward and get what you want and need from it and from a conversation. Very rarely Can you have both at the same time, you either get to be right, or you get to be happy. Really, at the end of the day deflection when we're deflecting, it's because we want to be right, we want to protect ourselves. Right, and we want to be right, in that situation. So I think the biggest thing for people who are stuck there who are finding themselves in that, that place of deflection is to decide that it is more important to fix the things that are wrong and to be right. Right, it's more important to make that progress than to be stuck in the principle of who's right. And who's done more harm, and who's more to blame for where we're at. And that kind of thing. What do you think?

Cassie 21:07
Um, yeah, and just, I would say the only other, like piggyback on that, that I would I would throw in is that it's okay if you've made mistakes. I think the reason why, and this is why it's a coping mechanism or a defense mechanism, is because at the end of the day, we don't really want to face that we're responsible for things that occur in our relationships, or the problems, we, we don't want to recognize or validate that I might be part of the problem.

Josh 21:44
That I've done something wrong.

Cassie 21:45
That I've done something wrong. Yes. And the thing is, is that it's not because you don't love your partner, it's not because you don't want to see your relationship do better. It's just really scary to own your shit, and recognize that you are part of the co creation, that is your relationship. So that's the only other thing I would throw into that.

Josh 22:08
Okay, so next thing?

Cassie 22:11
So the next one is projection, right? And we see this often because as humans, we often think that other humans think and feel the same way we do. And this is one that tends to be very subconscious, right? It's not something that we consciously do, it tends to be something that we do, because it just happens. And what it is, is it's the times that I'm feeling a certain way, or I'm thinking a certain way, I believe that's what you're thinking or you're feeling or what you would do in this situation, because that's what I would do.

Josh 22:46
Yeah.

Cassie 22:46
And this can happen in all kinds of ways. It can happen as subtly, as I'm having a bad day, and I come across you and I'm like, You seem like you've got an attitude. When really, it's me. Or it can be things like I've cheated in the past. So now, I think, well, if I cheated, because that's something I've done, well, then you must be somebody who cheats, too. So now I'm searching through your things. Anything else you want to add into that?

Josh 23:16
Oh, yeah, a lot.

Cassie 23:17
Okay.

Josh 23:17
So I find projection to be one of the most interesting ones of these coping mechanisms, because it is something that most people do completely unconsciously. And it's something that most people don't think about or talk about. And this is something that we do everywhere in our lives. What we do, especially inside of our relationships, is we project and there's a couple of places, like you said, there's a couple of places that we do this that I want to kind of break down. Okay. The first has to do with hard feelings and emotions. And when we have hard feelings and emotions that we haven't dealt with in ourself, those emotions have to go somewhere. Sometimes they go to lashing out, to yelling, to flipping out, or sometimes they go to unhealthy habits. But another place that those emotions tend to go, is we project them out on to the other people in our lives. Right?

Josh 24:27
This is, this is why, you know, the person who goes into a bar looking for a fight always finds it. Right, because you're gonna project it and find the one person there, who's, who's there, but it's more than that. Really, what we're talking about is me putting my emotion on you. So what does that look like? Well, you made a really- the example you gave was really good, which is I'm feeling angry. All of us have done this, you know how many times you've been in a situation where you're pissed off and you're upset? Right, and your partner in retrospect, when you're looking at it later is behaving perfectly reasonably. But in the moment when you're having this discussion with them, you just think they're being a total jerk because they're upset, and you're totally fine, right? They're the one who's angry. They're the one who's pissed off, you're being perfectly reasonable. And then in retrospect, you look back at the conversation go, you know, I was the one who was pissed off there. That's something that we all do. And those emotions are one way that we project. Right? And, okay, so let's take a pause for a second here. Why when we project our emotions, I want to talk about beliefs and stuff in a minute, but with projecting our emotions, Cassie, why is that toxic, whether it's to us or to our relationships, I've got a couple things I want to see what you've got.

Cassie 26:01
So it's kind of a couple things, actually. So one, when we're projecting, we're not actually dealing with our own emotions. So it's, it's one of those things where we talk about when we bottle emotions, and it comes out later. So when we're projecting and we're like, I'm fine, you're not fine. Well, later on, you're recognizing that you're not fine, you actually never dealt with those things. And they're going to come back out and bite you. Right? So you never actually deal with the things that you're feeling the actual hurt or anger or frustration or whatever negative emotion that you're, you're putting onto someone else, you're not dealing with what that is. Secondly, you are creating situations between you and your partner that never actually existed. So maybe going into that, like, you know, I'm feeling angry, and now I'm seeing you're angry. Well, now I'm escalating, or, you know, together, we're escalating an argument, because, instead of having the conversation, I am now pushing my emotions onto you. And inflaming that conversation with other stuff,

Josh 27:12
Well it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Right? If I go into this conversation, I see you as angry and pissed off, we're gonna wind up arguing, that's just how that that's gonna, that's just how that's gonna play out. Right? And the other piece too. So just just touching on the other thing that you said, you may be like, well, but if I'm projecting the emotions, aren't I getting them out, and then aren't they gone. And that's not how that works. The problem with projecting, you're not really dealing with the emotions, you're letting just enough pressure off to cope in the moment, but you're still angry, or you're still upset, or you're still sad, or you're still jealous, or you're still hopeless, or whatever. So those emotions stay. And then we fall back into the cycle, where again, we keep running into the same problems over and over again, because you know, when I have that jealousy and insecurity, or I have that anger at you, or I have that sense that that feeling that I'm not enough, in this relationship, if I haven't dealt with that, because I've just projected it, it's going to keep coming up. And we're gonna keep winding up back in the same situations, when he winding back in the same arguments and the same conversations in the same hurt that we were in. That's the first piece and that's one way people project.

Josh 28:27
The other way that we project isn't in our emotions, but it's in our beliefs, or our model of the world. Okay. And this is toxic for a bit of a different reason. So I'm gonna give you a really clear cut example of this, but this is believing really, the end of the day, it's believing that our partner thinks or believes or sees things in the same way that we do. Okay? So a really easy example of this for me, is when we're talking to couples that started out monogamous now one person has decided that they're non monogamous. Okay. And a lot of times, what we'll see is you'll have the monogamous person who will be like, well, if I wanted somebody else, that would mean that I was unhappy and unsatisfied and unfulfilled, and that this person wasn't enough for me. So since that's what it would be for me. And you want somebody else, This must mean that I'm not enough and I'm not fulfilling you and you don't want me. Well, that's not it at all. But if I'm projecting my model of the world onto you, that's the only thing that I can believe. And this really stems from this failure to understand that our partners think differently and see things differently than we do. So Cassie, when there's that kind of projection, what problems does that cause?

Cassie 30:01
Well, first off, it's tends to always end up with folks in stuck places. Because going back to like the example that you just gave, if I believe that you don't love me or value me because of these things, or I believe this thing has to be true. And you're telling me it's not. Well you're going to fight for your truth, right, you're going to fight that. And I'm going to continue to stay in this stuck place. So it tends to create a lot of stuck places for relationships, where you just end up in a lot of disbelief. And because I am so set on believing that what I think you believe or you think is true.

Josh 30:43
Belief inception going on over here.

Cassie 30:45
So let me back that up, it ends up because I believe that you think and feel the way I do. And this is the way that I think and feel. But you're lying to me. So it ends up creating this distrust in a relationship. Because if you really believe that someone thinks and feels like you, and then they're telling you, you're not all the time, it ends up creating distrust and disbelief, as far as the how true, you're being in the relationship, which then creates a whole other layer of issues, because the trust could very well be just fine. If I could accept that that isn't the way you think.

Josh 31:26
Yeah. So okay, so what can you do? What should you do, instead of projecting your emotions, and again, you know, this is a really unconscious thing. So it's something that you have to really pay attention to. So the first thing that I think is really helpful for people in this is to learn to deal with your own negative emotions. Right, a lot of this projecting of the negative emotions comes from us not dealing with the emotions in the first place. And when we're working with our clients, one of the things that we do a lot of work with them on is learning how to recognize the difficult emotions that are coming up for them, and then how to deal with them productively, and more importantly, how to deal with them internally, rather than venting them back out into the relationship. I and this is a really important piece of this, because we all have feels, and that's fine. And having the feels is okay. Right. And you can have whatever feelings you want about your relationship, you can be pissed off, sad, scared, jealous, whatever. And you can do that, and you can deal with it. And it doesn't have to have any impact on your relationship. But in the moment where you externalize that emotion, in the moment where you lash out at your partner, where you say something nasty, where you screw up one of their relationships. Whatever it looks like, as soon as you externalize that emotion. Now, not only do you have to deal with the feelings, but now you have to deal with the impact, whatever negative impact you just had on your relationship.

Josh 33:11
So it's so so important to learn to deal with those negative emotions productively and to resolve that within yourself in a healthy way. Rather than venting it out into the relationship, I kind of have this view when I'm thinking about this of like a wall. Right. And, you know, like, when you have your emotions, you have your hard feelings, you got your paint in the can, right. And as soon as you externalize that and vent that feeling out of the relationship, you kind of take the whole can of paint and throw it on the wall, and now you're trying to clean it off, it's much more difficult. It's much, much more difficult than just leaving it in the can in the first place. So learning to deal with your emotions in a healthy way. I don't mean not have them. That's not what what leaving the can means. But what I mean is learning to deal with them in a healthy way. I don't know, maybe go paint a nice mural or something. Is is the first thing. Okay.

Josh 34:02
The second piece, I think as far as projection that's really important. We talk to our clients, this is another one of the principles that we work with them on. But it's this idea of owning your shit. And it is really, at the root of it, it's about recognizing your part, your contribution to the challenges and the problems in your relationship, and then dealing with it. And that is vitally, vitally important to making sure that you're moving and really that's that's for not just deflection, but projection but also for deflection, right is really when you're in these moments where something's going wrong, where there is a fight, where you realize that you've fallen out of love, or that you don't know what the future looks like, or that there's broken trust. It's recognizing your contribution to the situation. Because pretty much everything in a relationship is a contribution of everybody in it. And taking responsibility for that piece, and doing what you can and what you need to, to heal things and to move them forward. Anything else you wanna throw out there?

Cassie 35:19
No, I was gonna talk about how to also deal with the beliefs around it.

Josh 35:25
Yeah, go ahead.

Cassie 35:26
So and then the second piece is, is obviously, thinking and believing that your partner thinks and feels the same as you. And it's really, really important to recognize that you're different people, and to honor that. And if you are seeing yourself in a place where you are constantly making the assumption that your partner is making decisions, or taking actions or thinking, etc, like you would, that's the time to take a step back and make sure that you're not just projecting, and being like, super - and make sure that you're being super curious in the situation as to what they are thinking and being open to the fact that their worldviews, their beliefs, the way they think, is different than yours.

Josh 36:17
And that's hard to be hard to bridge those gaps, especially when you're really far apart. But it's critically important. And you want to go to the last one, Cassie?

Cassie 36:24
Yes. So this is actually my favorite, and it is toxic optimism. Now, you can also call it denial. And I'm going to take a second and say this, I am definitely one for trying to look at certain things optimistically, and trying to be grateful, and how positive vibes about things, because I know a lot of people are gonna sit there and hear me say optimism and be like, but isn't that a good thing? To be optimistic?

Josh 36:56
Anything taken to excess, any strength taken to excess becomes a weakness.

Cassie 37:02
Yes. And so here's the thing, and this, and what this is, is this is in the face of things not being good, being optimistic about the future, or what's to come after, right? So this is looking like: we will never break up, we are going to stay together forever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever is no matter what. PS, he just served me with divorce papers and, and moved out three weeks ago. And I'm saying this, and you might be like, Wow, that's like a, an off the cuff extreme example. We see this every day. And it's this idea that if I just wish it, so it shall be and I'm just going to deny what's going on. And just keep faith that like no matter what, it's all going to be good.

Josh 38:02
And if that's you, I've got one question for you. How's that been working out so far? And listen, and I get it. And you know, we have these coping mechanisms, again, because we're human, like, you know, it's really hard. Like when you're a place where your relationship is falling apart around you, and you're miserable, and you're fighting and you're unhappy. And it's hard to get out of bed. It's hard to get through the day in that space. And you have to use these coping mechanisms to get by. But this is hiding your head in the sand. That is not a success strategy for your relationships. And what Cassie said is so true. I have probably at least 10 conversations a week with people who are like, everything's great. Like, we're never going- like we would never lose each other, we would never- and you talk to them, and it's like well, yeah, I mean, last night, we were talking about getting a divorce. We already know where the kids are going. We already know how we're dealing with the equity in the home. Like I'm gonna go stay with my sister. You know, kids will be really miserable. And you know, not having a parent here. And you know, I don't want to put them through that. But they'll figure it out. But oh, but we'll never break up. Yes, you will.

Josh 39:20
And, folks, I just, optimism is great and all, statistics are better. Like, this is the- in the United States 50% of first marriages. Correct me if I'm wrong, you guys. 50% of first marriages 60% of second marriages like 73% of third or maybe 63 of second and 70 of third- whatever. End in divorce, before you throw in non monogamy. Before you look at the fact that a lot of monogamous people aren't actually married and it is much less complicated to disentangle your life than it is if you are, right. Folks, again, like optimism is wonderful. But optimism is not success strategy for your relationships. Just like blind, delusional, sticking your head in the sand is not a success strategy. And you want to talk about some of the challenges with that, and the problems that causes?

Cassie 40:06
Yeah, and this is the interesting thing. When we think of optimism, we're like, oh, but that's, that's the thing that's gonna make me feel better. And when you're in the spot of being like, Yes, everything's fine, it might temporarily make you feel a little bit better, because that's what coping mechanisms do. They make us feel better in the in the short term, but in the long term, it actually makes you feel worse. And it's because when you have toxic optimism, you are not actually looking for solutions, you're not actually facing the challenges. And what you're doing is you're just avoiding it. But that doesn't mean that it's not still there. So this looks like we're never going to get a divorce, or we're never going to break up, right. But in the meantime, I'm not getting my needs met, I'm jealous, I'm feeling awful, you're angry and resentful. And those things still exist. Regardless of how often optimistic I'm being about our future, those things are still there.

Cassie 40:41
And we still told the kids were getting divorced two weeks ago and put them through that. Like it, the challenges don't go away, you can only lie to yourself so much. Like if you're unhappy, you're unhappy. Doesn't matter how much you tell yourself you're happy. Like, if you're feeling unloved if you're feeling like a roommate, if you're arguing all the time, if you're struggling with jealousy and insecurity. If you're looking at the future, and are being terrified that your partner probably isn't in it, it doesn't matter how much you lie to yourself, you're not going to suddenly be happy.

Cassie 41:47
And the thing is, this is actually the most dangerous of all of these. And it's because it's the one that we think is the most Okay. When we're talking about escapism, and we're talking about, oh, you know, drugs or alcohol or not getting work done. We're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, those things got to get fixed. You can't just lay in bed all day and not eat well. When we're talking about, you know, deflection. It's like, wait, I can't keep putting things on my partner that's wrong. When we're talking about, you know, projection where we're putting things on other people, we have to recognize that like that's not healthy, that we've got to deal with our own stuff.

Cassie 42:29
But toxic optimism is a place where we almost excuse it. When we see people around us do it. We're like, Yeah, good for you, buddy. It's all right.

Josh 42:39
Way to keep your head up.

Cassie 42:40
Way to keep your head up. And, again, I'm definitely one for focusing in on the good things that are real, the positive things that are working. But when you are in denial of the things that aren't working on the things that are falling apart, you end up in a place where you compound them, and you put that clock on a faster dial than it already is. So when I'm sitting here, and we've been talking about, you know, breaking up or divorce or splitting up the assets, and I'm saying it's all fine. I'm actually speeding up the clock, because I'm not taking the time to dive into those issues, those problems and start trying to find a way out of them.

Josh 43:24
Well, it's really simple. You can't hold delusional optimism. And this is why I think this is the most dangerous one. You can't hold delusional optimism and be lying to yourself about the problems and solving those problems in the same space. It doesn't work. You can't solve a problem without clarity on what that problem is, without acknowledging that there is a problem there. What is it, the first step is recognizing that you have a problem, like the first step is recognize that you have a problem. If you're lying to yourself about there being a problem, it's impossible to be in the place of fixing that problem. And people will make the motions of fixing the problem, right? Because you do know deep down that things aren't good. And you might talk about fixing the problem, you might talk to a couple people, you might read a couple books, you might whatever. But the truth of the matter is, is that unless you're actually willing to look at that problem in the truth and the clarity of what is really going on, you can't fix it, you can't fix a problem without acknowledging that it's there. So the reason I think it's the most dangerous is actually because if that is your coping mechanism, it is impossible to have that and at the same time to actually be fixing the challenge, which means that things are going to keep getting worse and worse and worse until you do lose what you have and you do lose your family and your kids are living in separate homes and you are splitting up the house and you're losing that partner and friend and the life that you built together and you could have had because oh you know wanted to bury our head in the sand and-

Cassie 44:59
Say it's all right.

Josh 44:59
Say it's alright.

Josh 45:01
Because it felt better in the moment. And really I think that's that's, that's kind of the sum of all these is, all of these coping mechanisms give you a little bit of feel better in the moment for much bigger challenges in on any kind of timeframe. And you have to decide like, would you rather have them and have that momentary, momentary comfort? And even that I wouldn't say it's a comfort. Like, it's like, you know, would you rather feel 10% better, but still feel 80% shitty? Or would you rather actually fix the problems that are there.

Cassie 45:36
And that's, and that's the only way that you can tackle the challenges in your relationship is to stop putting things off, is to stop using these coping mechanisms. And again, as we said, we all do these things to a certain small degree. But if you're at a place where you're using these things, and maybe you're sitting there and you're like, oh, this hit a little too close to home, right? The thing is, is to recognize that the first thing that you need to do is to acknowledge there's a problem, and to be willing to move to that place of discomfort to fix it.

Josh 46:12
Okay, so anything else?

Cassie 46:13
No.

Josh 46:14
Okay. So listen, you know, for all of you, if you're listening to that, and you're recognizing that, hey, like, you're in one of those, those coping mechanisms, right, and you're ready to fix things and move forward. Like, you know, we're here to help. Go ahead, go to atouchofflavor.com/talk, right, grab a slot, you know, it'll take you to our calendar, grab a slot, hop on the phone with one of us, right, we can chat through and talk about, you know, what your biggest challenges are, like, how you're coping with them, how you can break those toxic coping mechanisms, like what you need to be doing instead, and how you can heal your relationship and build thriving, loving, passionate connections that you want, build the relationship that you and the people in your life deserve. Right.

Josh 46:55
So like I said, book a free call atouchofflavor.com/talk, it'll take you to our calendar, grab up a slot, you'll go to a little application form, fill it out with some info for us to prepare for our call. And then hop on like get a pad and a pen, hop on when your time comes around, be ready to take notes. It'll be the best hour you've ever spent on your relationships will get you crystal clear on what's not working right on what the coping mechanisms are that you have and how you can bust pass those and move forward from that 10% better to actually healing things and building the life and the relationship that you want. Anything else before we go, Cassie? Nope, I think that about covers it. All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up for the day. And we will see you all here next time.

Josh 47:39
Thanks for tuning into today's show. We release new episodes every week. So make sure to subscribe.

Cassie 47:45
if you're ready to transform your relationship. And you'd like to see if you're a fit to work with us. Here's what I want you to do next, head over to atouchofflavor.com/talk and book an appointment to speak with our team. We'll get on the phone with you for about an hour. And we'll get you crystal clear on three things. What's really not working in your relationships, what your dream relationships would look like and a step by step plan to close the gap and save your family even if nothing has worked before.

Josh 48:13
We talk with hundreds of non monogamous folks like you every year. And here's the truth, building loving, thriving relationships that doesn't happen on its own. You need expert guidance to make that happen. And unfortunately, when you were building relationships outside the box, that's impossible to find and we get it. But that's exactly what we do. We've helped clients all over the world, save their families get the passion back and become best friends again.

Cassie 48:37
So if you want to see if we can help you do the same head over to atouchofflavor.com/talk. I'm Cassie.

Josh 48:44
And I'm Josh. Let's talk soon